Posted on 03/25/2014 4:49:09 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
You are correct and the quotes from his speech in Gingrich’s article prove the point. What’s interesting and fresh to me is that Putin’s speech is not something like the speeches of our domestic “leaders” that have been tested on focus groups, consultants and poll takers, but goes straight to the point.
BS. Putin is a lying commie. Are you still hoping the Russians nuke our cities so you can take over?
If the Russians are rational (your words) then stopping them now, while it is relatively easy, will not lead to “existential war”.
However, the Russians consider everything they do, geopolitically, to be “defensive”, regardless of whether anyone else sees it that way or not. Gingrich is correct in pointing this out. Putin’s own words about centuries of “containment” are the key.
Now, the difference between C.A.R. and Ukraine or Estonia is that we have (well, HAD, since we evidently are “without honor”) a very serious security agreement with Ukraine, not to mention that the majority of the people there understand and quite sincerely want to be a Western style democracy. Estonia is even more serious a security commitment (NATO ally) and is a rather well functioning “Western” democracy and economy in fact. C.A.R. is the opposite, with even its
Prime Minister Nicolas Tiangaye saying it is a “non-state”.
The ramifications of the US abandoning these commitments is devastating: It not only encourages aggressions now and in the future, but even worse, unless a Russia / China axis becomes totally dominant, quickly, it almost guarantees at least a mid-scale nuclear war down the line.
A Presidential signature on a document isn' t worth squat. Everyone in the world knows that.
Without Senate Ratification of a Treaty the USA did not commit to anything concerning Ukraine.
Asw for the majority of the Ukrainian people, they voted for a pro-Russian president in a free and open election.
As for NATO? We need to STOP it's expansion, and now. NOBODY in the US wants to go to war to defend Ukraine or Georgia.
Yeah, we have to honor our commitment to the Baltics, Romania and Bulgaria (really, Bulgaria?), but we needn't make such folly worse.
The only agenda I am pushing is the pro-American one. I don’t go throwing around nutty conspiracy theories which undermine the fact that Russia is displaying naked aggression towards its neighbors.
Sigh. If that is the thought process, then indeed we are a worthless people, and deserve what we will reap. If a formal agreement reaffirmed by multiple Presidents is meaningless, then Treaties are not far behind. After all, if a Treaty has become unpopular within the U.S., who the heck is going to make us honor it? Estonia? The U.N.?
Honorable people, and countries, honor their obligations even when it may not appear to be in their short term interest. I’d try to explain again why that is important, but it seems to be beyond many. :-(
That doesn’t mean we have to send troops to Crimea. We could just return the value to Ukraine of those 5000 nukes they gave up in return for our promise of protection.
The “folly” you speak of has kept the peace for many years, for the most part, in (historically) a particularly warlike and brutal part of the world. Russia never liked it, and if they don’t like it now, that’s an argument to bolster NATO further, given Russia’s return to their historic ways.
March 25, News from Ukraine
Yesterday electricity went off in Crimea. It was feeble attempt of Ukrainian government to liberate our hostages. Now electricity is restored while hostages still in prison so the whole operation "Blackout" turned out to be another failure of Ukrainian government. Next time when electricity will be turned off it will not be Ukrainian government, it will be doing of Mr.Putin. The reason is that Putin do not need Crimea for people to live in, he needs it as territory for military base. It is very expensive for Russia to keep 2,5 million population in Crimea and pay high rates for delivering water, build power plants and lay pipe with gas. Will be really easier just depopulate the area, leaving some few hundred thousand people to provide services for Russian military. Depopulating is on the way, thousands refugees leaving Crimea now.., things like blackouts, ethnic cleansing will speed this up. In a few years there will be deserted area and no need to provide anyone with electricity and gas.
Meanwhile Ukrainian army in Crimea giving up, leaving to Russians our warships, aircraft and other military equipment worth billions dollars. Ukrainians do not resist, they armed with some sticks against Russian spetsnaz. Ukrainian military have command not to open fire. They receive command from interim president and in his turn he get this command from Western leaders. Pacifists. During Maydan period Western leaders kept saying to our opposition not to shed blood, to negotiate and prevent any violence. Eventually people couldn't stand it any longer and went ahead with sticks on armed police special forces, hundreds died and so Maydan won. It is people won, not opposition who now doing the same trying not to spill blood. I feel how degree in society is getting hot again. People very angry and now people armed. Another maydan will be a bloody mess.
If someone going to visit Ukraine this days, I really don't think it is good idea. We have armed gangs shooting police, robbing banks, robbing expensive stores by 15-20 men. Gangs armed with AK-47. This is now reality in Kiev and other cities. Situation is destabilized by fact that in addition to our bandits Russians coming in large numbers to do all sort of provocation. Our police forces do not exist. We can say that Russian invasion began.
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/maydan/updatemarch25.html
Is it my imagination, or is the word "pacifists" dripping with disgust (and probably soon, more blood)?
I would also note that Putin would be quite clever to depopulate Crimea. This would push more ethnic Russians into (most likely) Eastern Ukraine, possibly creating more havoc (ie., reason to further intervene), and if even not, creating more regions "Russianized" enough to perhaps vote to join Russia. It would also, I assume, attempt to push out the Tartars, who apparently (in protest) did not vote in the referendum, and who would be the most likely source of trouble for Putin's forces in Crimea. The question may be, will they resist?
*pssst*.
0bama is a lying marxist commie.
not sure what I’d call Putin. he’s not a commie and has stated numerous times how socialism doesn’t work... once to 0bama. Putin has also dropped taxes to promote business while 0bama is doing everything he can to undermine business and success. Putin has also taken steps to keep the homo propaganda away from children... something the fags in the US had a hissy fit over going into the Olympics. 0bama included. Putin is a world class martial artist... 0bama is a world class fool.
of course, the real difference is that Putin is a leader that works to provide for his country while 0bama works to destroy ours.
as for nuking, there are a couple US cities that would be improved with a little nuking. san francesspool and detroit come to mind. remember, Hiroshima got hit with a nuke... detroit got hit by progressive democrats. only one is still obliterated to this day.
btw, I think you’d feel more at home over on DU. that’s where the morons, pig f*ckers and paste eaters hangout.
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