Posted on 03/08/2014 9:11:36 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
If former CIA Director David Petraeus and his ex-deputy Michael Morell are recalled to testify on Benghazi, they can expect hard questions about the mortar attack on the CIA annex which killed two former Navy SEALs.
Republican Mike Rogers, chairman of the powerful House Intelligence Committee, is weighing whether to recall one or both of those officials over their Benghazi congressional testimony.
Rogers said the evidence suggests a highly skilled team carried out the mortar strike. Fox News has confirmed five rounds were fired in under a minute, with three hitting the annex roof -- a target roughly the size of two convenience stores.
When pressed on the sophistication of the mortar attack, two sources familiar with Petraeus' statements to Congress said he also seemed to downplay the necessary planning and skill, stating the mortars could have been fired from the back of a truck with the same accuracy.
None of the five military officers contacted by Fox News said the truck explanation was plausible.
"A truck would not permit you that stable platform necessary to make that fine adjustment from Point A to Point B to put the rounds down," Tony Shaffer, senior fellow with the London Center for Policy Research, said. "Because every time you fire, the truck shakes. That's not adequate for any type of direct fire.”
Others take a more skeptical view. "It just sounds to me like General Petraeus was trying to do a favor for the administration. I just can't see any way around it because he's an infantry man, he knows you can't do it," Peters said.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Benghazi ping
Emails have a way of making people say whatever you want them to say. That’s what happened here. Remember no one knew about the NSA when this occurred . He goes to the White House and says I’m going to tell the truth,he’s fired and the e-mails appear. Then a great job in academia and a job for wife and all is good.
Crosslink
That’s certainly a possibility
Thanks I was speculating based on experience and Chicago politics LOL
Mortars are indirect fire weapons. ManPads and the Javelin are missiles. The older SA missiles use a infared seeker head that guides after launch. The Javelin has a fire and forget feature that can terminally guide the missile. If you can get the lock, shooting from a truck wouldn't matter. The backblast might cause a problem.
The statement is also somewhat odd in that the US mounts all kinds of direct fire weapons on vehicles and not all are stabilized. They still are effective.
I agree with both of you, this was good shooting. Too good to think that a couple of first timers found the tube and the ammo and decided to join in. No doubt it was adjusted by someone else in sight of the target area. Pre-planned position, pre-planned fires, not the BS that is being presented.
Although never read that, easy answer: Because they thought they would get air support, rather than allowed to die.
Knowing this attack went on for some 8 hours, and reading about the military assets in the area, I've come to the conclusion that the WH or some political flag officer told those assets to stand down. IIRC, some admiral or general was fired because he told the WH he will respond. Am I off mark?
Hamm?
Thank you for your knowledgeable reply Gunner.
No.
Someone on the ground communicated with something in the air. Otherwise you wouldn't give away your position painting a target.
It stinks, doesn't it?
5.56mm
I just re-read the article. Five rounds in under a minute with the last three being on target? Had to be professionals. I think it would be impossible for some slobs to get off five rounds in under a minute and get anywhere close to the target.
After reading up, both are guided. Either could have been used by the Islamists, but someone above says they found "mortar" pieces. So be it.
Bottom line: The attack went on for 8 hours and we had other assets near theater, although a couple hours away. It's a disgrace that Obama/Hillary and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs let those people die without even an attempt. Sheesh, was Panama the end of trying to rescue Americans under siege?
No wonder so much of the World now see the USA as impotent. Damn Obambi and ilk all to hell. At least Carter tried to rescue the Iranian hostages in an ill-fated attempt. I've always been amazed that the hostages were released the day Reagan took office. Some say coincidence. Really?
Sorry, don't get it.
Firing short and long is known as “bracketing” the target. When you think about this, they not only had a trained crew, they had a trained observer. They may have even had a dedicated and trained person or persons for a Fire Direction Center (FDC). Most of the time, in order to save time, you don’t have the gunners doing the math with the firing tables. They are preparing the ammunition and making the necessary changes to the mortar’s deflection and elevation.
The observer would have to have communications to the FDC. He would be giving them directions to adjust the mortar. The article says that they didn’t have mortar rounds impacting to the right or left of the target. They were “long” and “short”. That probably means that due to the math involved and the quick time that effective fire was placed on the target and the fact that they weren’t adjusting left or right, the firing position of the mortar had been pre-planned.
It was a professional mortar crew firing from a pre-planned position with a professional observer who was placed to see the effects of the fire.
Guided, yes.
But in the case of the FIM-92, it is self guided.
As for the javelin, it says ‘IR guidance” in the one case, and I couldn’t find much else.
At any rate, it is line of sight only.
Mortar rounds leave distinctive pieces, like metallic puzzle pieces, that can be looked at and said “Hey, those SOB’s tossed an 88 millemeter mortar at us!”
Yes, the bottom line is exactly that.
We had a response within reachable distance, and our leadership laid down and went to sleep.
Scary thought, Obama had been making noise about releasing the blind sheik.
What if he had some demented plan to release the blind sheik in exchange for a kidnapped ambassador?
He quit making noises about releasing the blind sheik shortly after the ambassador ended up dead.
His responses and behaviors don’t add up to someone who is being told of an attack.
It’s almost as if he was going “Ah, the script says this will happen” and went to bed while waiting to be told of hostage demands.
Was the last name Hamm?
Yes sir, the entire episode stinks. Can't believe that our leadership did NOTHING to help an Embassy diplomat, not to mention his assistant and former SEALS who ran to defend. That used to be cause for total war and annihilation.
In the old days before political correctness and limited "rules of engagement", we would have KILLED them all. Think AC-130 gunships or Cobra gattling guns. Too bad about the collateral damage. Don't attack and you won't get killed. But then these tribal Muslim shits really don't care about their women and children.
And while I'm on "ROE", I'm still glad we nuked Japan into submission. I'm also glad we devastated Dresden, Hamburg, and many other German cities. Those were the times we wanted to win a war started by others. Viet Nam was the turning point due to weak leadership (McNamara) and over-indulged hippies. Read Bork's "Slouching Towards Gomarrah" to understand why the 60's media and kids were so bad for our present time.
Actually, it may have started in the "forgotten war", Korea, when MacArthur was fired. We should have nuked those Cong/Chinese bastards into oblivion. We would not be facing the growing threat of China today.
What the heck are you continuing to talk about? What is Hamm?
Never mind
Either you don’t know or the answer is no
They didn’t have heavy weapons for defense cuz the emergency defense plan worked out AHEAD OF TIME called for reliance on rapid and accurate support from US **AIRCRAFT**.
WHY were the SEALS lasing? I mean, it would point back to their positions, right?
BECAUSE THEY WERE RELYING ON THE PLAN THAT THEY HAD BEEN LED TO **BELIEVE** WOULD BE EXECUTED.
No proof, but what is then reasonable to suspect?
That as the SEAL defenders were under attack they were REPEATEDLY ASSURED THAT AIRPOWER WAS INBOUND, right around the corner, and that they simply had to HANG ON.
The SMALLEST and EASIEST job at Bengazi —simply the word “GO!”— was totally neglected, and that was because the impending ELECTION was a higher priority.
>> OUR LEADERS KILLED THOSE MEN <<
................a. Mortar on technical
b spotter on the roof
c. One long
d. one short
e. on target...................
Yes! And if the mortar was fired from the same position on the same truck, would not the recoil affect the springs on the vehicle exactly the same???
So you fire - with the effect on the sprung platform, and your forward spotter calls out long by XX, go left by YY;
then you adjust, and your next round has the exact same sprung platform, and your forward spotter calls out short by XX, right by YY;
and so you adjust, and the mortar is right on, after the platform was sprung exactly the same as the previous shots.
So, just what difference does the stability of the mortar platform make as long as its recoil effect is constant???
(I’m no way a munitions person, but my Noob theory!)
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