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To: re_nortex
Yeah, I don't think we're that far apart.

I'm a Southern Baptist. Growing up they taught us to be aware of our witness and that moderation was key. The local Catholic church used to host a youth dance every Saturday night. And our church was fine with our going to it. They just advised us to have fun but to also be conscious of how we danced and not to dance or dress in a way designed to provoke lust.

Sex outside of marriage is either Adultery of Fornication. Fornication is when neither party is married.

On Immodesty... A lot of what is considered "immodest" is what people are used to. Our society has gotten used to a fair amount of skin and I don't think it still has the same effect as it used to when cultural norms were stricter. And frankly, if I had my choice, I'd much rather live in a society with relaxed standards of dressed than an uptight one.

You are right about the standards of behavior have declined. I'm not convinced that the dress standards are a causative factor. I suspect they are more symptomatic than causative.

I was recently talking to my 16 year old daughter about how when I was young the churches were engaged in active battles against pornography. And there was tension between freedom of speech and pornography. And she asked me if we won. And I realized it's not a simple yes or no.

We might actually be surprised at how Christ would react to some things if we could actually sit and talk to him in the flesh. Apparently before the fall, nudity was fine and God didn't have a problem with it. And then you have Kind David led by the spirit to dance nude in front of all Israel. Since God invented the body with all of it's "features" and is also the inventor of sex, I suspect He may not be nearly as prudish as we imagine. He has a holy nature which absolutely condemns sin, but He's able to clearly see the proper role of sexuality and when's the heart crosses the line.

I think some and possibly all of the "shame of nudity" is related to our fallen condition. Now I'm not saying we should be nudists. I wouldn't want to live in a society where nudity is common and can't be avoided. But I'm not really convinced that nudity provokes lust as much as we think. The burka communities don't seem to have reduced rapes and appear to have as many ongoing battles with lusts as we do (impression not studies), even though it often means death in those communities.

I think lust provoking has more to do with the deviation from the cultural norm, than the cultural norm itself. And probably more with the choices that a man makes instead of either the cultural norm or whether there are provocations in that culture.

I think the decline in standards of behavior have a lot less to do with dress and more to do with men rebelling and rejecting God altogether.

45 posted on 10/15/2013 3:15:19 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN; GeronL; smokingfrog; lentulusgracchus; Liberty Valance; bgill; af_vet_rr
I was recently talking to my 16 year old daughter about how when I was young the churches were engaged in active battles against pornography. And there was tension between freedom of speech and pornography. And she asked me if we won. And I realized it's not a simple yes or no.

That's a touchy subject here on Free Republic and, if you don't mind, I'd like to pursue the subject of smut and porn just a bit further.

If you check my posting history, I'm very proud of Texas -- quick to defend the Lone Star state when attacked or cast in an unfavorable light. I'm a Texan by deliberate choice as opposed to by birth. Since I made a conscious decision to move here more than four decades ago, my pride in all things Texas might even be stronger than those lucky enough to have been born here. So that's some background on where I'm coming from.

As one enters the state on heavily traveled I-35 from the north and crosses the famous Red River, what's the very first thing you see upon entering Texas?

A very garishly lit and tacky-to-the-extreme smut shop. The signs are very prominent and can't be missed touting the "adult" videos available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I cringe when my grandchildren travel with me as when they celebrate our returning to Texas -- but have it marred by a porn outfit just a few hundred yards away from the "Welcome Center" at the state line.

Frankly, I'm conflicted since the porn shop is a legal business and in the spirit of free enterprise, who's to call for them getting shut down? And when I drive past, there are plenty of vehicles in the parking lot -- a lot of long-distance truckers evidently find the place appealing and I surmise it turns a tidy profit. And to your point, "Yes we did get the stores to put it behind the counter and cover the pictures, so our kids wouldn't have to see it every time they visited a store", if nothing else, I'd settle for it moving a few miles south so it not the first impression one gets of our state. But we ain't too big on zonin' around here so the smut palace is probably a permanent fixture.

I've pinged a handful of other well-spoken Texans to get their opinions. Well, sir, I just hope don't get laughed off the forum for being an old fuddy-duddy! :)

46 posted on 10/15/2013 4:48:04 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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