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To: Joshua; Colonel_Flagg; OneVike

I was rather taken back by your treatment of Colonel_Flagg. You forbade him to respond, so I will instead.

Regarding personal pronouns in the Psalms, it is not about the grammar, but the focus.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
HE maketh me to lie down in green pastures: HE leadeth me beside the still waters.
HE restoreth my soul: HE leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for HIS NAMES’S sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for THOU art with me; THY rod and THY staff they comfort me.
THOU preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: THOU anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Although heavy on personal pronouns, it is quite different from:

DESERT SONG (HILLSONG)
This is my prayer in the desert
When all that’s within me feels dry
This is my prayer in my hunger and need
My God is a God who provides

Verse 2:
And this is my prayer in the fire
In weakness or trial or pain
There is a faith proved
Of more worth than gold
So refine me Lord through the flames

Chorus:
And I will bring praise
I will bring praise
No weapon formed against me shall remain
I will rejoice
I will declare
God is my victory and He is here

Verse 3:
And this is my prayer in the battle
When triumph is still on it’s way
I am a conqueror and co-heir with Christ
So firm on His promise I’ll stand

Bridge:
All of my life
In every season
You are still God
I have a reason to sing
I have a reason to worship

Verse 4:
This is my prayer in the harvest
When favor and providence flow
I know I’m filled to be emptied again
The seed I’ve received I will sow

No one is going to take away your MTV. But please leave a place at the table for those of us that are concerned about the aggressive and pervasive onslaught of secularism (pop culture) that has not only invaded our lives, but our Sunday mornings too.

I avoid pop culture (read secularism) as much as possible, not because I am a “legalist” but because I have no desire to fill my mind with this folly, and it now no longer appeals to me.

If the CC teaches that those who disagree on non-doctrinal issues are Pharisees, than I’ll pass on your invitation.


43 posted on 10/06/2013 10:03:54 AM PDT by hiho hiho
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To: hiho hiho

No one is going to take away your MTV. But please leave a place at the table for those of us that are concerned about the aggressive and pervasive onslaught of secularism (pop culture) that has not only invaded our lives, but our Sunday mornings too.

I avoid pop culture (read secularism) as much as possible, not because I am a “legalist” but because I have no desire to fill my mind with this folly, and it now no longer appeals to me.

If the CC teaches that those who disagree on non-doctrinal issues are Pharisees, than I’ll pass on your invitation.


First of all I didn’t forbade him anything.
I was informing him that debating him was a waste of time.

He implied contemporary worship was “destroying traditional worship”

You refer to contemporary worship as MTV, secular, and pop culture, in other words, it’s of the world.

Neither one of you used the word “demonic”, but I’m sure that’s what you feel.

You and the Colonel can worship as you please, where you please. The body of Christ is big and varied,

I find it offensive when both of you feel it necessary to judge congregations that don’t fit into what you believe to be correct.

The Pharisees basically thought like you and the good Colonel and did the same thing. Sorry if that offends you.

The two of you have described CC worship as: MTV, pop culture, aggressive and pervasive secularism invading Sunday morning, a destroyer of classic worship. Have I missed any?

Don’t sell yourself short Hiho, you are a legalist along with the Colonel. I would bet the farm that both of you are also KJV-only. Good ol` 1611 King Jimmy, inspired by god don’t you know?

Feel free to comment and tell the Colonel to do the same.
Let me take the time now to apologize for not reading or responding to any of it.


44 posted on 10/06/2013 6:21:14 PM PDT by Joshua (how you try to portrait)
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To: hiho hiho; Colonel_Flagg; Joshua
OK, I guess you pinged me also because, like Joshua, I defend Chuck Smith and the ministry, Calvary Ministries, which he founded.

All this ridiculous bickering over what one thinks God may like or dislike about the music some Christians sing to, the instruments they use, and the words they use when glorifying and praising God.

I went through the song Colonel_Flagg used, Desert Song (Hillsong), as his example of what bothers him about todays modern worship songs. He also points out that the song has a total of 24 pronouns, which he believes it a song about the seeker, not the Savior.

Well I counted the words in the song used, and counting the many times one would sing the Chorus, there are an total of 171 words.

To be fair, I found a Psalm that has close to the same amount of words in it. You will notice that Psalm 42 has 281 words, 34 of which are personal pronouns other than the one used to speak of God, "You". (Check it out below) Would you say that the Psalmist was overly consumed with himself in this Psalm instead of God?

1 As the deer pants for the water brooks,
1So pants my soul for You, O God.

2 my soul thirsts for God, for the living God.
2When shall I come and appear before God?

3 my tears have been my food day and night,
3While they continually say to me,
3"Where is your God?"

4 When I remember these things,
4I pour out my soul within me.
4For I used to go with the multitude;
4I went with them to the house of God,
4With the voice of joy and praise,
4With a multitude that kept a pilgrim feast.

5 Why are you cast down, O my soul?
5And why are you disquieted within me?
5Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him
5For the help of His countenance.

6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me;
6Therefore I will remember You from the land of the Jordan,
6And from the heights of Hermon,
6From the Hill Mizar.

7 Deep calls unto deep at the noise of Your waterfalls;
7All Your waves and billows have gone over me.

8 The LORD will command His lovingkindness in the daytime,
8And in the night His song shall be with me--
8A prayer to the God of my life.

9 I will say to God my Rock,
9"Why have You forgotten me?
9Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?"

10 As with a breaking of my bones,
10my enemies reproach me,
10While they say to me all day long,
10"Where is your God?"

11 Why are you cast down, O my soul?
11And why are you disquieted within me?
11Hope in God;
11For I shall yet praise Him,
11The help of my countenance and my God.
Psalms are songs, while they were usually spoken, often times they were accompanied with instruments.

I wonder how some Christians would react if a worship leader stood before them today reciting poems filled with personal pronouns that neither rhymed, nor used any instruments the parishioners are familiar with?

Now I will not claim that I no problems with the use of Modern styled music in Churches.

However, my problem with Churches using modern music has nothing to do with the new music, but rather the way worship leaders seem to follow the same type of format many radio stations do. They worship leaders lead the congregation in singing the most popular song of the time, and after a couple of Months they move onto the newest and most recent hit, while seldom playing the ones everyone liked 6 Months ago.

I also think they error in ignoring the traditional Christian songs that many of us older Christians enjoyed growing up with. I also believe that the younger generation is losing out by not learning the traditional Hymns,

That all being said, I think it borders on legalism to claim it is wrong for congregations to use any type of Music they chose to worship God.

I say all this as one who was raised in a Lutheran church until I was 10. When my mother remarried after a divorce, my step father had me attending a Catholic Church, along with taking catechism classes every Wednesday afternoon until I was 16.

At 20, near the end of my military I gave my life to God while attending a non denominational Evangelical Church in Columbus Ga, while stationed at Ft Benning Ga. It was the first time I learned the great Southern Gospels, and really fell in love with them.

That was back in 1976, since then I have moved many times, changed churches many times, and eventually found myself attending a Calvary Chapel in Chico where I now live. I soon learned that I really like the modern Christian music, but I do still enjoy the songs I learned in my younger years.

At 57 years old, I have learned that men can worship God in many ways. It's not the way one worships god that matters, it's what one believes about the Scriptures that matters. Do you follow the truth, or are you one who wants your itchy ears scratched so that you can justify your immoral life.

Sorry for the long response, but I get very carried away when it comes to my stance on Christian matters. Besides, by pinging me, you wanted me to respond.
45 posted on 10/06/2013 9:44:45 PM PDT by OneVike (I'm just a Christian waiting to go home)
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