Ted Cruz is going to New Hampshire. Will they like him?

Washington Post ^ | August 23 at 6:30 am | Chris Cillizza and Sean Sullivan

[gogeo]

Okay...he was nominated as the Repub candidate for President in 2008.

At what point would your...theory...become operative?

[GregNH]

What we have here are two private organizations, the RNC and the DNC, whom make their own rules. They can nominate whomever they wish. It is the 20th amendment that is to prevent an ineligible candidate from being installed as the President. The 20th reads in part;

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

[Nero Germanicus]

“He was born in Colon at the Colon Hospital which IIRC is about 40 miles from the military base, but either way it was not on a US military base. “

John McCain was born at the “Family Hospital” at Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone. Both his REAL birth certificate and his mother confirmed that. The birth certificate which stated that he was born in Colon, Panama was a fake.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/john_mccains_birthplace.html

[GregNH]

Thank you, I stand corrected. It had been mentioned so many times that he was born in Colon and I had never seen anyone dispute it.

[DoodleDawg]

Ted Cruz is going to New Hampshire. Will they like him?

I doubt it. New Hampshire's pretty blue.

[DiogenesLamp]

Love your quotes.

[DiogenesLamp]

I am going to TRY to stay out of this one.

[DiogenesLamp]

Lacking that, please point out the relevant law pass by the US Congress and signed by a US President that supports your opinion of the meaning of "Natural Born" citizenship requirements.

...

If you can't provide any of the above, you don't have a leg to stand on, constitutionally speaking.

Well that's just it. The word "Natural" in the term "natural born citizen" means "without regard to man made laws." (i.e. Natural law.)

How can someone point out a law regarding "natural" if the two concepts are paradoxical?

[DiogenesLamp]

Oh? And, who decides whether a candidate is a natural born citizen?

Nature. If you are citizen only through the operation of a man made law, you aren't a natural citizen.

[DiogenesLamp]

And I would also add that during the time of our founders (because of the automatic citizenship of the wife) there was no other outcome.

This is a point I often try to make. This Split citizenship stuff didn't exist before 1922. Women were always naturalized to the Husband's citizenship upon marriage.

[DiogenesLamp]

It appears that God agrees.

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 male and female created he them; Mt. 19.4 · Mk. 10.6 and blessed them, Gen. 1.27, 28 and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 and the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: 5 and all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 ¶ And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7 and Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 and all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 ¶ And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Ca-i'nan:
10 and Enos lived after he begat Ca-i'nan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 and all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 ¶ And Ca-i'nan lived seventy years, and begat Mahal'aleel:
13 and Ca-i'nan lived after he begat Mahal'aleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 and all the days of Ca-i'nan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 ¶ And Mahal'aleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 and Mahal'aleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 and all the days of Mahal'aleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 ¶ And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 and Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 and all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 ¶ And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methu'selah:
22 and Enoch walked with God after he begat Methu'selah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 and Enoch Heb. 11.5 walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 ¶ And Methu'selah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 and Methu'selah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters: 27 and all the days of Methu'selah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 ¶ And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 and he called his name Noah, 6 saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 and all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 ¶ And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

“Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; / And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; / And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; / And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; / And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; / And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; / And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; / And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; / And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; / And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: / And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; / And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; / And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; / And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; / And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

Not certain, but i'm pretty sure all those names are Male.

[DiogenesLamp]

The Founders and Framers made their views clear in the Naturalization Act of 1790, signed into law by President Washington: “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.”

And for some peculiar reason the words "shall be considered as" are invisible to you guys.

If anything, those words are a tacit admission that the two things are different.

[DiogenesLamp]

Sorry, but the major authorities of the early United States say you're wrong. Ted Cruz is as eligible as any President who's ever served.

And here is lying Jeff with his usual lie. "ALL AUTHORITIES IN THE KNOWN UNIVERSE AGREE WITH ME," When in fact, all Jeff has is a few LAWYERS who were NOT PRESENT as delegates or ratifying legislators and who's opinions are generally DECADES after the fact.

In fact Jeff has only ONE major authority that can even be regarded as agreeing with him, (James Madison) and even that one's actions belied his words. As President, Madison deliberately let a man remain in French custody for at LEAST 13 months and only permitted him to be freed AFTER evidence beyond proof of birth in South Carolina was provided by a Supreme Court Justice and a Congressman.

Jeff just doesn't HAVE any early authorities who are "Authoritative." All the ones who actually know what the Delegates intended are against Jeff.

(Franklin, Wilson, Washington, Marshall, Monroe, Armstrong, etc. )

[DiogenesLamp]

Let's also be clear that according to the documentation left behind by the legal experts of the early United States, "natural born citizen" absolutely DOES NOT require both birth on US soil and citizen parents. It only requires that a person be BORN A CITIZEN, which is exactly what Ted Cruz was.

No, let us be clear that according to the documentation left behind by the legal experts of the early United States, that "natural born citizen" absolutely DOES REQUIRE a Citizen who is a father.

Being BORN A CITIZEN required a FATHER who was a citizen, or in the process of BECOMING a citizen. You got your big fat @$$ whipped regarding Bayard where you kept going on and on an on about Bayard's contention that being "born a citizen" made one a "natural born citizen" and as *I* told you, there is nothing wrong with Bayard's statement if you postulate that being "born a citizen" required a citizen father.

We find out from Thomas Bayard that this is exactly what his father meant. A Child must have a CITIZEN FATHER to be a citizen. A Child of a German citizen born in Ohio was a GERMAN citizen, not an American citizen. Just as the child of a TRANSIENT KENYAN is a KENYAN citizen, not an American citizen.

They start not by going and reading history, law and the Founding Fathers and early legal experts, with anything like an open mind.

You are the biggest F***** Hypocrite! There is no one out there more intent on IGNORING early legal experts than you. You keep saying CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN MARSHALL wasn't talking about "natural born citizen" when he quotes Vattel on "natives or indigenes", but you never answer the question as to what sort of citizen he WAS talking about.

Chief Justice John Marshall:

Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens.

Justice Bushrod Washington:

1. The writers upon the law of nations distinguish between a temporary residence in a foreign country for a special purpose and a residence accompanied with an intention to make it a permanent place of abode. The latter is styled by Vattel "domicile," which he defines to be, "a habitation fixed in any place, with an intention of always staying there." Such a person, says this author, becomes a member of the new society, at least as a permanent inhabitant, and is a kind of citizen of an inferior order from the native citizens, but is nevertheless united and subject to the society without participating in all its advantages. This right of domicile, he continues, is not established unless the person makes sufficiently known his intention of fixing there, either tacitly or by an express declaration. Vatt. 92-93.

You KNOW you don't have a leg to stand on, but here you are still lying about it!

That's not how history works. That's not how competent and honest people process history. Competent and honest people begin by saying, "Let's go see what the Founding Fathers and our experts in the law have had to say.

Yeah, tell me about Honest you freaking pathological liar. It doesn't matter how many times you are shown that better authorities beat your PRETEND authorities, you still ignore the better authorities for your Rump lawyers.

Once again, My two supreme court Justices beat your British Lawyer.

BOTH THESE GUYS debated the Adoption of the US Constitution! How many Delegates have YOU got?

[DiogenesLamp]

I think he should keep his Canadian citizenship.

That way I can have a Canadian president. The maple leaf flying over the white house would be fine with me. Better than the Kenyan flag or Indonesian flag.

Heh. Kinda the way King James_I United England and Scotland.

:)

[DiogenesLamp]

What the Canadians want to do is their business. We cannot allow foreign governments to manipulate our presidential selection system by deciding to treat our candidates as their citizen, too.

Yeah, except for the fact that if he were in Canada, he could be forced to comply with their law. If they called up men for the draft, he could be called and he could be forced to serve.

Do you imagine they could do such a thing to someone born in the United States to Citizen parents?

It's not theoretical either. Men born on English Soil of French Parents were executed for Treason because they wouldn't fight against France.

[DiogenesLamp]

Writing to Jeff, Ray76 said:
Exaggeration is one thing, repeatedly posting the same falsehood and exaggeration is deliberate deception, i.e. lying.

That's how I see it too. Jeff has a bad habit of deliberately deceiving people regarding things which have been disproven. Once is an accident. A few times is sloppy. Over and over and over and over and over again? Deliberate LYING.

[DiogenesLamp]

Furthermore, I think if you scratch the surface of many of these “Natural Law” supporters, you’ll find a Paul fan.

Not me. I regard Ron Paul as a complete nut. Wouldn't want him anywhere near the reigns of power. His son "Rand", is better, but still leaves me feeling a bit uneasy that he shares some of his father's Kookiness but manages to hide it.

[DiogenesLamp]

The fact is, there isn't the slightest indication that ANY of these legal experts of the early United States - ALL OF WHOM KNEW THE FOUNDING GENERATION PERSONALLY - agree with your take on the matter.

And yet NONE OF THEM WERE THE FOUNDING GENERATION! Every time we look at one of those, we don't find any support for your position. All you have is post hoc "hear say" lawyers who have no first hand knowledge of what was debated in convention.

And you keep trumpeting these weak cards as having some significance compared to the much better authorities who WERE ACTUALLY THERE!

You aren't interested in hearing GOOD authorities, because they don't say what you like. You have to scrounge around in the Judicial bargain basement to get the British Centric legal opinion you want.

[DiogenesLamp]

John McCain was born at the “Family Hospital” at Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone. Both his REAL birth certificate and his mother confirmed that. The birth certificate which stated that he was born in Colon, Panama was a fake.

On this, you and I are in agreement. Not that it makes any difference nowadays, but I am fed up with people continuously repeating the false claim that John McCain was born in Colon Panama.

As Twain said: "A lie can go half way around the world before the truth gets it's boots on. "