Posted on 07/14/2013 6:59:50 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Well, interestingly enough, Paul did not speak English - and the Hebrew translation is the same as for “unclean.” Yes, I know the word is accurate, and I stand by the opinion that it is totally ineffective, even off putting and counter productive. But some on FR would rather vent than be productive, so knock yourself out.
1 Corinthians 6:10
‘malakoi’ -> Catamites
‘arsenkotai’ -> Sodomites
“stand by the opinion that it is totally ineffective”
It’s like Chesterton - it has not been tried and found ineffective, it’s simply not been tried.
Be honest - when’s the last time you heard the word ‘catamite’?
If you think soundling like John Hagee is going to help our cause, knock yourself out. (I like Hagee sometimes, but then again, I’m not target audience here)
And yes, sodomite has been tried, and it’s now a word that immediately characterizes the user, the way the word fornicate does. Like it or not, it’s a word largely used by angry faux preachers according to the culture. There are other words just as accurate and just as direct.
Be wise as serpents....gentle as doves. Using the word sodomite is neither.
I did not ask about sodomite. I asked about Catamite.
When was the last time you heard that word?
“angry faux preachers”
And now we get to the real issue. What’s ‘false’ about the statement that Apostle Paul used the Greek for sodomite and catamite?
Are you calling Paul an ‘angry faux preacher?’
You know, I get the sneaky suspicion you’re a bit light in the loafers, aren’t you?
“Were there any folks as absurd as you in his day?”
Again - malokai is rendered as catamite. Arsenkotai is rendered as sodomite.
What exactly is absurd about this? You don’t like the words because the words are truth. And you still haven’t answered my question as to when was the last time you heard the word ‘catamite’.
As I said, you have a real problem with the biblical condemnation of homosexuality. That is why you have distaste for the truth.
Ever considered expanding your apoarently very limited vocabulary, in order to express yourself without such gutteral grunts and references to bodily functions?
Just a suggestion.
WTH are you talking about? Gutteral grunts? References to bodily functions? HUH???
“THIS CULTURE. THIS WORD, IN ENGLISH, NOT THE SAME WORD IN ANY OTHER LANGUAGE AND ANY OTHER CULTURE.”
Yes, it is. Arsenkotai = sodomite. Malokai = catamite. Both were used by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 6.
“I just said that word has been caricatured out of effectiveness in this culture.”
Which is why you attack preachers who use both words as ‘false preachers’, despite the fact that they are using the bible as it was written and not the watered down, inclusive post modernist ‘variant’ that you prefer.
Words have meaning. We should use the right words for precisely this reason.
Translated words from a couple thousand years ago do not carry the same cultural connotation, even though they technically mean the same thing. I’m sorry, I have over estimated your IQ. Bye.
“Translated words from a couple thousand years ago do not carry the same cultural connotation, even though they technically mean the same thing.”
Wow. Ok.
So speaketh the prophet CE Wright. Personally, I gotta side with St. Paul and transcendent objective truth over subjective contextualism.
My question, JCB, is whether, per your tag line, those who live in an unholy land are in any way touched and improved by your presence there. Jesus ordered us to love our enemies. That does not suggest that we ought to overlook sin, but it does suggest that our approach to dealing with those who are trapped in sin is to be restorative. As Wright observes, the insults are counter-productive.
The New Testament is full of lists of sins that will not be found among the residents of heaven. (Matthew 5:28-32; Matthew 19:18-19; Mark 7:21-22; Romans 1:26-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9,1-; 2 Corinthians 12:20; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3-7,18; Colossians 3:5-8; 1 Timothy 1:9-10; and Revelation 21:8, just to cover a few.) And yes, homosexuality (arsenokoitai and malakoi) is on that list.
But the lists do not stop there. It is clear that if you have even looked upon a woman with lust in your heart you are guilty of adultery. If you have even been angry at someone without cause you are guilty of murder. The lists include envy, slander, pride, foolishness, gossip—I could go on. If you are capable of examining those lists and come away content that you are not guilty, then I suppose you are entitled to throw the first stone.
I see no justification for attacking someone who is among the more thoughtful and reasonable voices on this forum.
You would be correct if you countered that even Jesus used insults. Very true. But he saved the insults for those who were so convinced of their own righteousness, the Pharisees, that they were standing between the people and the God who loves them.
We take care in dealing with those caught in sin because, like them, we are also sinners.
“I see no justification for attacking someone who is among the more thoughtful and reasonable voices on this forum.”
oh, pfft.
If you don’t understand something, ask first!
Other than the question I actually raised (which you are choosing not to answer) I would not know what else to ask.
One, your ‘friend’ isn’t worth the ink you’ve spilled.
Two, you need to do a google search on the tagline.
Three, it’s generally not recommended to intervene into a dispute that you’ve not been around for and has nothing to do with you.
My question, JCB, is whether, per your tag line, those who live in an unholy land are in any way touched and improved by your presence there.
Which was my point in the first place: is anything improved by using a word that has become synonymous with huckster rip off artists and hateful fire and brimstone only preachers? I submit it is not. I want the same improvement JCB claims to want....
I see no justification for attacking someone who is among the more thoughtful and reasonable voices on this forum.
I certainly tried to be thoughtful and reasonable in making my points (until I got totally ticked off) - and for my efforts, I was called light in the loafers. Or, put another way, JCB almost called me a sodomite. This after refusing to acknowledge that I was narrowly talking about the english word sodomite, as it connotes today, in the United States. I was clearly not talking about every Greek and Hebrew translation of that word through world history. Those are very different things. And I would also add that the meaning and usage of catamite is disputed throughout history too.
You would be correct if you countered that even Jesus used insults. Very true. But he saved the insults for those who were so convinced of their own righteousness, the Pharisees, that they were standing between the people and the God who loves them.
Which is ironic, ain't it? Who was acting Pharisaical in this exchange?
You gonna post the content of the PMs you sent me, CE Wright?
Then everyone can see you for real?
Wow...I just bothered to catch up on some posts.....this JCB is one bitter unhappy dude....not skilled in reading comprehension, but oozing misplaced self righteousness.....
hah, nothing I haven’t said here, just a tad saltier (and not that much actually).
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