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Immigrants fight swearing oath to Queen [Canada]
Toronto Sun ^ | July 12, 2013 | Jenny Yuen

Posted on 07/13/2013 5:09:21 AM PDT by rickmichaels

TORONTO - God Save the Queen — but not everyone in Canada agrees.

Simone Topey is among three plaintiffs — all landed immigrants — involved in a lawsuit to change the Citizenship Act where swearing an oath to the Queen is mandatory in order to gain Canadian citizenship.

Topey came to Canada 35 years ago, and though she feels patriotic towards the country, being Rastafarian she regards Queen Elizabeth as the head of Babylon.

“I have slave descendants … and slavery was headed by the British monarch,” Topey, 46, said Friday outside #30 University Ave. court when asked her biggest problem with the oath.

“Canada is a nation in which you have the right to be yourself, and to be coerced to (pledge allegiance to the Queen) is a violation of rights.”

Lawyer Peter Rosenthal, who is representing all three plaintiffs, said this case is about whether new Canadians who feel it is repugnant to take an oath of allegiance to a monarch should be allowed to be Canadians anyway.

“It’s unconstitutional,” Rosenthal said outside of court. “It violates new Canadians’ rights to freedom of conscience and religion and violates their freedom of expression by forcing them to say an oath they don’t believe in.

“It also restricts them afterwards to have loyalty to a majesty and not join republican movements, for example.”

Another plaintiff, Michael McAteer, 79, said he is a committed republican who came from a family who supported Irish independence from British domination. He’s against the oath because it doesn’t keep with his views of democracy.

“It’s like being a second-class citizen,” McAteer said. “It’s a matter of conscience. I take affirmations seriously and I just couldn’t do it.”

Plaintiff Dror Bar-Natan, 47, considers the oath “repulsive” because it states some people are born with privilege.

However, Kristina Dragaitis, the counsel for the Attorney General of Canada, argued if new Canadians are not willing to comply with regulations, they should not be able to access things such as a passport.

“If you’re not prepared to meet the statutory requirements, those are the costs,” Dragaitis said in court.

Both sides completed their submissions Friday to Justice Ed Morgan, who reserved his decision. There was no word on when a decision will be reached.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada said they will not revamp their policies in the meantime.

“It has been a requirement to swear allegiance to the Queen of Canada, the Head of State of our country, since 1947 when the Act was introduced and there are no plans to change this,” spokesman Glenn Johnson said.


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Government; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: canada; diversity

1 posted on 07/13/2013 5:09:21 AM PDT by rickmichaels
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To: rickmichaels

see what happens when you blindly and stupidly accept all immigrants


2 posted on 07/13/2013 5:10:13 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: rickmichaels

The rest will lie, and then lie in wait.


3 posted on 07/13/2013 5:11:59 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: rickmichaels
Topey came to Canada 35 years ago, and though she feels patriotic towards the country, being Rastafarian she regards Queen Elizabeth as the head of Babylon.

Then go home. Who would want to live in Babylon anyway?

And why would 'Babylon' want her living there?

4 posted on 07/13/2013 5:13:59 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (When America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: rickmichaels

To all my Canadian pals, (I’m in BC right now) here it comes...the incremental chipping away is well underway...Mon


5 posted on 07/13/2013 5:16:01 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: rickmichaels

Kick their asses out of Canada. They’ll always be a drag on societies resources....it’s in their genes.


6 posted on 07/13/2013 5:17:16 AM PDT by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: rickmichaels

Canada should hang up the Queen thing.


7 posted on 07/13/2013 5:20:44 AM PDT by brooklyn dave
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To: rickmichaels

“It also restricts them afterwards to have loyalty to a majesty and not join republican movements, for example.”

Yes, peter, that’s the point, peter!


8 posted on 07/13/2013 5:21:17 AM PDT by Postman (.......................................................Boehner - Let the Senate Bill DIE!!!)
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To: rickmichaels

Diversity is their strength.


9 posted on 07/13/2013 5:22:39 AM PDT by Will88
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To: rickmichaels

I’m not a Canadian so my opinion wouldn’t mean much but I can see where Canadians would be of the opinion “you either swear allegiance to the Queen of get the bleep out”.I know that would be my attitude with anyone refusing to promise to protect and defend our Constitution.


10 posted on 07/13/2013 5:25:10 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

I had a rustifarion tell me it was ok to smoke pot around his child because it was part of his “religion”, no kidding, I snorted at him “ it’s still illegal”


11 posted on 07/13/2013 5:26:09 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: brooklyn dave
Canada should hang up the Queen thing.

I respect the Queen.I think McCartney was probably right to suggest that she's "a pretty nice girl".,,but I'd never swear allegiance to her.But if swearing said allegiance to her works for Canada (which seems to be the case) I can't see any harm in continuing.

12 posted on 07/13/2013 5:31:34 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Civil Servants Are No Longer Servants...Or Civil.)
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To: rickmichaels

Simone should take herself back to Africa, she seems to be an ungrateful NIncumpoop. I have used the N word describing Simone will she sue me ?


13 posted on 07/13/2013 5:52:44 AM PDT by Christian1
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To: rickmichaels

“I have slave descendants … and slavery was headed by the British monarch,” Topey, 46, said Friday outside #30 University Ave. court when asked her biggest problem with the oath.

Actually much slavery was brought about by one tribe of blacks capturing and selling members of other tries of blacks but hey don’t let reality get in the way or your being offended........


14 posted on 07/13/2013 5:56:34 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I go to sign up for the American Revolution 2013 and the Crusades 2013?)
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To: rickmichaels
>>“It’s unconstitutional

Odd comment for a lawyer, as while there is a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I believe Canada doesn't have a constitution.
15 posted on 07/13/2013 5:59:37 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: rickmichaels

I would never swear allegiance to another being either (except to God), and would certainly never swear allegiance to any earthly king or queen. That said, if the woman doesn’t want to do what is required to become a Canadian citizen, she should just STAY HOME.

Stick by your guns, Canada.


16 posted on 07/13/2013 6:01:51 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: rickmichaels
“I have slave descendants … and slavery was headed by the British monarch,” Topey, 46, said Friday outside #30 University Ave. court when asked her biggest problem with the oath.

How does she know that her descendants will be slaves?

17 posted on 07/13/2013 6:10:42 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: SECURE AMERICA

duh..she has slave descendants?...perhaps a literacy test would suffice...


18 posted on 07/13/2013 6:11:07 AM PDT by randomwalk (Liberalism is a psychosis...)
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To: rickmichaels

Somebody needs to learn the history of slavery.


19 posted on 07/13/2013 6:13:34 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: rickmichaels

Then leave or don’t apply for citizenship


20 posted on 07/13/2013 6:13:48 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
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To: rickmichaels

Are all “immigrants” a-holes or what? Maybe they should stay in their own flea-bitten loser countries instead of becoming community organizers like nobama.


21 posted on 07/13/2013 6:14:25 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Postman

The thing is, it doesn’t restrict a person from joining a Republican movement at all.

I’m not Canadian, but Australian, but we have similar oaths and I am familiar with the legalities of them.

The current Canadian Oath of Allegiance is:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

It’s slightly different from the previous Oath, but still has the same legal provisions:

“I swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King George the Sixth, His Heirs and Successors, according to law, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen”

Note that both oaths refer to the Heirs and Successors of the Monarch, and the George VI oath includes the words “according to law”. These are implicit in the more recent Oath, but still apply.

The Oath takes that form because it means it still holds if the Monarch dies, it just passes to their Heirs and Successors. While Canada remains a Constitutional Monarchy, this will be the King or Queen of Canada, but if Canada - by proper Constitutional Process - chooses to cease being a Constitutional Monarchy, the Oath transfers to whatever entity succeeds the Canadian Monarch.

A person is also entirely free under the Oath to be a republican and advocate a change of the form of government, provided they only do so according to the laws of Canada. They can’t do it by unlawful and unconstitutional methods without violating their Oath - but they are fully free to do it by the normal democratic processes that apply.

“Heirs and Successors, According to Law.” If the change is made legally, it’s perfectly acceptable under the Oath.


22 posted on 07/13/2013 6:20:56 AM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: expat1000

Canada does have a Constitution. It is primarily contained in the Constitution Act of 1867 and the Constitution Act of 1982 but includes a number of other documents as well. It isn’t as neat as the United States Constitution, but it is a written Constitution.

It also contains some ‘unwritten’ provisions that come from British Common Law (as does the UK, and most of the other Commonwealth Realms). Though ‘unwritten’ in the sense that they are not set down in any particular formal document, these are generally clearly understood and have been documented in analysis of Common Law.


23 posted on 07/13/2013 6:27:41 AM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975

Thx - I wasn’t clear on that.


24 posted on 07/13/2013 6:35:37 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: rickmichaels

Go back to where you came from. Don’t let the door hit your backside!!!!


25 posted on 07/13/2013 6:49:01 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: expat1000
Constitution of Canada
26 posted on 07/13/2013 7:13:40 AM PDT by rickmichaels
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To: rickmichaels

Citizenship and Immigration Canada said they will not revamp their policies in the meantime.

Good for them to bad California didn’t understand that look how they turned out.
First a state then the country.


27 posted on 07/13/2013 7:26:02 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: rickmichaels

Then go back to the slime bucket you migrated from.


28 posted on 07/13/2013 7:28:28 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: rickmichaels

Im a member of UELAC United Empire Loyalist Association of Canada

The Loyalist equivalent of the DAR, SAR...

There are also many other Americans who are members

As Americans we do not have to take/sign the oath to the Queen part of the application...

However although I can hold most offices in the society I cant be the president because that one post requires the oath to the Queen...

Im OK with that..

BTW before I was allowed to become an American citizen, I had to renounce all other associations and my loyalty to my prior counry, New Zealand...

That Irish thingy is phony...

Tennessee Nana UE


29 posted on 07/13/2013 8:01:17 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: rickmichaels
However, Kristina Dragaitis, the counsel for the Attorney General of Canada, argued if new Canadians are not willing to comply with regulations, they should not be able to access things such as a passportCanada.

There. Much better with a little change.

30 posted on 07/13/2013 8:52:22 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (This message has been recorded but not approved by Obama's StasiNet. Read it at your peril.)
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To: rickmichaels
It does set an unfortunate precedent if these non-citizens bring about the change in Canadian law. Not that I think they will however. They certainly don't know their manners.

I came from England to Canada and found for example that one cannot quaff a can of beer in an Ontario recreational park. They would certainly tell me where to get off, if I told them I could do this in merry old England and why not here? I just adjoin to the local watering hole, if I so need a drink.

There is an underlying lesson for us all here and I include our American friends. No longer do some immigrants from some awful environment, come and toe the line.They should be grateful to join in and yet hold a few reservations if they wish. They have been told by someone, (wonder who?) society must conform to THEIR practices.

A bit of a ramble for which I hope to be excused.

31 posted on 07/13/2013 9:28:11 AM PDT by Peter Libra
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To: rickmichaels; Clive; exg; Alberta's Child; albertabound; AntiKev; backhoe; Byron_the_Aussie; ...
To all- please ping me to Canadian topics.

Canada Ping!

32 posted on 07/13/2013 1:06:30 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: expat1000

We do have a Constitution, but it is not confined to a single document. It consists of several Acts of Parliament, English Common Law and court rulings.


33 posted on 07/13/2013 1:09:50 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (I'd give up chocolate but I'm no quitter)
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To: brooklyn dave
Canada should hang up the Queen thing.

Sure, when America hangs up its pledge of allegiance thing to the flag.

34 posted on 07/13/2013 1:57:10 PM PDT by RansomOttawa (tm)
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To: naturalman1975

Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes, trying to understand all the interpretations put forth by those who actively seek to destroy beneficial tradition just makes my head hurt something awful.


35 posted on 07/13/2013 2:16:38 PM PDT by Postman (Flies get too little credit.)
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To: brooklyn dave

Canada should hang up the Queen thing.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hardly, as a result of commonwealth membership I can travel
and stay in many nations without the necessity of a visa. I also happen to like the British Royal family, except for one or two of them. Its a good institution.


36 posted on 07/13/2013 5:02:27 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: expat1000

Yes, we do have a constitution. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is part of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Canada


37 posted on 07/13/2013 10:16:54 PM PDT by oldweesie
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To: KarlInOhio

Trouble is one can live in Canada legally for a long time without becoming a citizen. One can apply to be a landed immigrant, and wait a set time (I believe it’s a year) before being eligible to apply for citizenship, but having been granted landed immigrant status carries no obligation to take the next step - becoming a full citizen - within a prescribed time limit, or ever, as far as I know.


38 posted on 07/13/2013 10:27:39 PM PDT by oldweesie
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