Posted on 06/21/2013 4:16:09 PM PDT by drewh
Ron Brown Express.
Agreed. In the Congressional testimony we were told that these were awful, grievous leaks, and then there is NO substantiation or detail. C’mon, if the cat is out of the bag, then the people deserve to know at least something about what the damage really is (especially since our ENEMIES already know anyway.) Otherwise, the perception, probably correct, is that government(S!)simply don’t want the people to know what they know about us.
I got into this with another poster a few nights ago, and somehow (to paraphrase) revelations that could eventually bring down the US because people would doubt our security agencies (a pretty wild claim!) morphed into terrible “political ramifications” at the G8, due to Snowden’s leaks. I was too tired to continue arguing, but I’m still puzzled as to what Obama might be trying to accomplish at the G8 that most any FReeper would not like to see fall apart!
Some people seem to have a different definition of “truth”.
IMO, if Snowden was an agent of China, there’s little chance he’d behave as he has, and if he was and did, he’d probably be quite dead by now.
The irony is, we may push Snowden into trading protection (provided by China) for information (given to China.) But based on what’s been released so far, would he have anything really worth trading? So far as I can see (and I’ve read all the stuff in The Guardian), he’d only at best be confirming what the Chinese already know or strongly supect. Their reaction so far is merely due to the public revelations, which give them a chance to carp in public about “hypocrisy”, but otherwise it’s not worth a hill of beans to the Chinese. Again, IMO.
(2) This is the definition of what a Red Chinese asset would do.
(3) Red China has now done what intelligence agencies promise their assets: extracted him and protected him. This was a very successful operation - it's clearly duped all the slower folks on this forum.
WWII.
No US soldier has ever set foot on Icelandic soil without the permission of the Icelandic government.
Lot of anti-American nonsense on this forum lately.
wideawake,
I mean this in the kindest way with no sarcasm.
A collection of disparate facts that do not lead one to the other with no break in the chain, prove nothing.
You could just as easily write:
Snowden wants to go to Iceland for protection
Snowden likes fermented shark
Snowden has SNOW as part of his name
Ergo, he is an Icelandic secret agent.
Again, this is not factual proof, nor a syllogism. At best, it is an inference or opinion.
If you do find actual facts of Snowden being a Chinese spy, I’d like to know. When you find it, please post it.
“IMO, if Snowden was an agent of China, there’s little chance he’d behave as he has, and if he was and did, he’d probably be quite dead by now.
“The irony is, we may push Snowden into trading protection (provided by China) for information (given to China.) But based on what’s been released so far, would he have anything really worth trading? So far as I can see (and I’ve read all the stuff in The Guardian), he’d only at best be confirming what the Chinese already know or strongly supect. Their reaction so far is merely due to the public revelations, which give them a chance to carp in public about “hypocrisy”, but otherwise it’s not worth a hill of beans to the Chinese. Again, IMO.
+1
Here's an example of a syllogism.
Red China does not do favors for Americans without a motivation (this fact is called the Major Premise)..
Red China has done Edward Snowden several big favors (this fact is called the Minor Premise).
Therefore, Red China has a motive to do Snowden favors (this deduction from known facts is called the Conclusion).
Here's another:
Red China conducts routine surveillance on its own citizens and foreigners.
Snowden moved to Red China and helped Red Chinese intelligence.
Therefore, Snowden supports Red Chinese surveillance.
Here's another:
The South China Morning Post provides intelligence to Red China.
Snowden provided the SCMP with his stolen information.
Therefore, Snowden supplied Red China with intelligence information.
The facts are the facts.
There is no realistic analysis of this facts which does not lead to the inescapable conclusion that Snowden is a paid agent of Red China.
Random comments about outre Icelandic cuisine are the distractions you need to avoid reality: if Snowden's primary motivation was a patriotic desire to reveal domestic surveillance, why did he reveal the existence and workings of a US program designed to gather intelligence on Red China - a surveillance state?
All the special pleading in the world cannot reconcile this discrepancy without drawing the conclusion - obvious to anyone who looks at the facts - that Snowden is working for Red China. The Red China that has given him asylum. The Red China that has put him up in a nice hotel. The Red China that is offering him a luxury jet ride to the destination of his choice.
My theory is still that Langeley sent him out. We still have patriots in intel.
“There is no realistic analysis of this facts which does not lead to the inescapable conclusion that Snowden is a paid agent of Red China.”
No, none of your premise leads to this inescapable conclusion. I do not think you have taken a course in logic friend. Each of your statement combos falls short of your conclusion.
“if Snowden’s primary motivation was a patriotic desire to reveal domestic surveillance, why did he reveal the existence and workings of a US program designed to gather intelligence on Red China - a surveillance state?”
He revealed it to a newspaper and consequently to the world. The US is as much a surveillance state now as “red china”.
“The Red China that has given him asylum. The Red China that has put him up in a nice hotel. The Red China that is offering him a luxury jet ride to the destination of his choice.”
There he goes again...
... “The Red China that has given him asylum.” - my understanding is that he is/was in Hong Kong on a normal visa. Do you have proof he is there under asylum???
... “The Red China that has put him up in a nice hotel.” - do you have proof “red china” paid his hotel bill???
... “The Red China that is offering him a luxury jet ride to the destination of his choice.” - my understanding is this is a citizen. Do you have proof that “red china” is paying for his flight???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk - for you.
My, that's convenient. Shall we ignore a logical analysis of this as well?
Also, you seem to have missed the point - it is a perfectly legitimate intelligence activity to hack Red China, and any normal American would not want to compromise US intelligence capabilities with respect to Red China.
But Snowden did. Deliberately. And informed the SCMP directly. What motivated him to do so?
So you would argue that he is only pretending to work with the Chinese and that he is actually a deep cover triple agent?
You keep using that word. I do not think you know what that word means.
"it is a perfectly legitimate intelligence activity to hack Red China, and any normal American would not want to compromise US intelligence capabilities with respect to Red China."
Do you honestly think "red china" didn't know they were being hacked?? If so, I think you are naive. We know they are hacking us. They know we are hacking them. Ditto Russia. That doesn't compromise US intelligence.
Keep trying. If you connect the dots, write.
Anybody who ‘believes’ anything Snowden, China, the US, Iceland states is rather naive.
This IS cloak & dagger, after all.
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