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Red light: Traffic cameras bring Ohio town to screeching halt
Fox News ^ | June 07, 2013 | Michael Cipriano

Posted on 06/07/2013 7:43:57 PM PDT by george76

Edited on 06/09/2013 7:00:47 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Those traffic cameras drivers hate and municipal bean counters love have brought a small village in Ohio to a grinding halt.

Elmwood Place (pop. 2,188) has seen four of its six Village Council members resign amid public outrage over a flurry of fines issued by the cameras. The devices have raised nearly $2 million for the tiny Cincinnati suburb, but angry drivers and shopkeepers complain the ticket blitz from above could turn downtown Elmwood Place into a ghost town. Now, with two-thirds of the council gone, partly in protest over the cameras, the governing body can't reach a quorum to conduct the people's business.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: New York; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: redlight; redlightcamera; redlightcameras; trafficcameras
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1 posted on 06/07/2013 7:43:57 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76

I don’t necessarily mind speeding/red light cameras, but I do mind when the lights are manipulated to maximize revenue.


2 posted on 06/07/2013 7:47:45 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: george76

It’s not about public safety, it’s about generating revenue for the city.


3 posted on 06/07/2013 7:51:50 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: george76

Red light cameras and speed cameras generating hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for municipalities across the country-politicians refer to this as “not raising taxes on the working class”.


4 posted on 06/07/2013 7:51:53 PM PDT by RC one
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To: Jonty30
I don’t necessarily mind speeding/red light cameras, but I do mind when the lights are manipulated to maximize revenue.

They only generate revenue to be in the black when the yellow is shorter than reasonable.

Increase the yellow by a second and you decrease revenue by 90%.

5 posted on 06/07/2013 7:52:25 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("Forget it, Jake. It's Eric Holder's people.")
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To: george76
Now, with two-thirds of the council gone, partly in protest over the cameras, the governing body can't reach a quorum to conduct the people's business.

Let's see if the town even misses its governing body.

6 posted on 06/07/2013 7:55:59 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("I am the master of my fate ... I am the captain of my soul.")
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To: george76

Those cameras are all over the greater area around Denver with quite a few here and there in tourist areas on the Range in CO. Plus the tricky, new ammunition magazine laws targeting out-of-staters, marijuana law traps, fire bans in place, recreational firearms use outlawed, etc.


7 posted on 06/07/2013 7:58:39 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Jonty30

They sometimes shorten the yellow lights to up revenues. That gets people killed. Those who do so need to go to prison (not jail).


8 posted on 06/07/2013 7:59:10 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: george76

Bipartisan politicians don’t call the funds taxes, BTW, but “revenues” (re. Boehner comments). The political/regulator class constituents and their pet bureaucrats need them to enforce political correctness and prevent competition from the unworthy.


9 posted on 06/07/2013 8:01:27 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Jonty30

> I don’t necessarily mind speeding/red light cameras, but I do mind when the lights are manipulated to maximize revenue.

Then you should hate them all the time because they just used YOUR tax dollars to buy and install them so they can suck more money out of your wallet. Hell I know some lowlife towns tht set them at intersections where they know a car or two is going to get stuck under the red light like near railroad crossings and traffic lights that dont have a left turn signal at an intersection that’s o busy it’s almost impossible to make a left turn. Hell they know what they’re going. Half the time you hear cars hit their brakes hard to keep from going through a yellow light and half the the time they get rear-ended. Automated traffic cams are like Mafia goons that force you to fork over your hard cash by rigging the contest so you lose everytime...


10 posted on 06/07/2013 8:03:55 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Jonty30
In the United States, we reserve the right to run our politicians out of office if they really piss us off.

This did that.

That's just us.

/johnny

11 posted on 06/07/2013 8:04:11 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: george76

We have several of the damnable things in our town. I don’t mind the ones in the school zones because that’s a static, fixed speed situation.

I know that it’s an entirely anecdotal observation on my part but the impression I get now with the large intersections is more, not less extreme behavior as drivers race to avoid the red.

Our mayor claims that the streets are safer but we recently had a fatality where the car accelerated wildly to beat the light only to hit and kill a pedestrian a hundred feet down the way. They aren’t including the incident in the stats because (they say) it “didn’t occur in an intersection”.

A pox on them and all who enable them.


12 posted on 06/07/2013 8:04:18 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: george76

Sickening.


13 posted on 06/07/2013 8:04:36 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (NRA)
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To: Jonty30

For me, for traffic light cameras to be acceptable:

1. They would have to provide proof that the car entered the intersection while the light was red (and not just proof that the car was in the intersection while the light was red), and

2. they would have to provide proof of who was driving, and

3. the vendors who installed and operated the cameras would have to be on a fixed-price contract, so that they would have no financial incentive to falsify the system, and

4. the funds raised through fines must not, in any way, be used in a way that provide any sort of financial or political benefit to any level of governmental authority that had any level of oversight, no matter how indirect, over the management and installation of the traffic lights.

In other words, there should be no motive, either on the part of the vendor or of the government to manipulate the lights and/or the cameras so as to increase revenues.


14 posted on 06/07/2013 8:05:06 PM PDT by jdege
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To: jsanders2001

Then you should hate them all the time because they just used YOUR tax dollars to buy and install them so they can suck more money out of your wallet. Hell I know some lowlife towns that set them at intersections where they know a car or two is going to get stuck under the red light like near railroad crossings and traffic lights that dont have a left turn signal at an intersection that’s so busy it’s almost impossible to make a left turn. Hell they know what they’re doing. Half the time you hear cars hit their brakes hard to keep from going through a yellow light and half the the time they get rear-ended. And forget that adding one second decreases their revenue. They shouldn’t be there in the first place. Automated traffic cams are like Mafia goons that force you to fork over your hard cash by rigging the contest so you lose everytime...


15 posted on 06/07/2013 8:07:14 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: george76

??? I live in police Mommy state Maryland and red light/speed cameras are the last of my concerns.

They have to be visible to work and my phone warns me whenever I approach one.

In fact we have roving speed camera vans in my county and while they make lots of money they are just too easy to see and beat. In fact I regularly take pictures of them and I report their positions on my phone app.

Honestly, people HERE who I lecture on how these work get caught more than once by them afterward, People are clueless/

Its like the state lottery, for morons.


16 posted on 06/07/2013 8:09:10 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Jonty30

So you don’t “mind” them huh? If your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear?

Trade freedom for safety? Willing cede personal power to strangers to keep your butt safe? Nice. Go to DU. Lets keep gubment small. Lets keep gubment small, fearful and ineffectual. Lets keep King George where he belongs, across the pond.

I want Liberty! The price one MUST pay for Liberty, is Risk. They are flip sides of the same coin. If you want to save your sorry butt, wear bubble wrap, but please, please, please, never ever contact your city councilman or vote.


17 posted on 06/07/2013 8:10:21 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: george76
But not only do motorists hate the cameras, local merchants complain that they make potential customers steer clear of shopping districts - and even entire towns - where the cameras lurk, waiting to dispense costly citations.

Uh, you forgot the main problem with the cameras. They increase the number of rear end collisions by changing the meaning of a yellow light from "Stop if you can do so safely." to "Slam on your brakes instantly or risk a ticket."

One study found that a one second increase in time a yellow light was displayed resulted in an 80% reduction in red light violations. The lesson is obvious: if you want to decrease accidents, increase the length of the yellow and get rid of the damn cameras. Some greedy municipalities do exactly the opposite, adding cameras and shortening the yellow to generate more revenue. Bring on the lawsuits.

18 posted on 06/07/2013 8:11:40 PM PDT by TChad
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To: jsanders2001; Jonty30; rockrr; E. Pluribus Unum
see : #16

19 posted on 06/07/2013 8:12:09 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: jsanders2001; Jonty30; rockrr; E. Pluribus Unum; george76
Here ya go, why complain like a victim? Its more satisfying to do this:

The speed camera vans in Howard County (March 10, 2013 )

20 posted on 06/07/2013 8:18:48 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs

I may be one of those drivers other drivers really hate. I maintain the speed limit as ridiculous as I may find it; I always slow down at intersections, stopping at yellow lights more often than not; I follow a full second per 10 MPH behind the vehicle in front of me, often having to move back when impatient drivers move into the safe space I create.

A camera won’t make a difference to the way I drive, but a camera would sure as heck piss me off. It’s the principle of it all.

Have a unit there and ticket those drivers where it can be SEEN - that is the only effective deterrent.


21 posted on 06/07/2013 8:24:37 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Jonty30

That’s the only reason they are ever installed.


22 posted on 06/07/2013 8:27:22 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: jdege

They would be acceptable to me if they hung city council members who vote for this stupidity from them.

Your passive willingness to cede personal power to strangers makes me want to vomit.


23 posted on 06/07/2013 8:29:08 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: Jonty30; george76

“I don’t necessarily mind speeding/red light cameras...”

I do mind...it is an infringment on my rights. These cameras do not prevent accidents or save lives, they are purely revenue enhancing devices. It is becoming a big business and it is time for all of us who love FREEDOM to sound off on ALL infringements.


24 posted on 06/07/2013 8:32:02 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: Jonty30

“I don’t necessarily mind speeding/red light cameras, but I do mind when the lights are manipulated to maximize revenue.”

Same here, also with the caveat that I don’t like the insanely high fines.

One time, one-tenth of a second, I was caught. For that low risk, accidental, no harm, flow of traffic error, I paid $460. Ridiculous.

Increase the yellow light time and keep the fines in the reasonable zone and I don’t have an issue with red light cameras.


25 posted on 06/07/2013 8:32:23 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The longer the cycle, and the transition between stages, the more likely it is that drivers will go through late. The long cycles help lead to increased red light running.

The Brits have a solution, web search for “burning gatso”. They take a bike tire with some gasoline in it, light it, and use a stick to put it up on the camera. End of camera.


26 posted on 06/07/2013 8:33:43 PM PDT by wrencher
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To: DariusBane

WELL SAID!!!


27 posted on 06/07/2013 8:37:14 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: jdege
100%!!!
28 posted on 06/07/2013 8:39:33 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: KittenClaws; jsanders2001; Jonty30; rockrr; E. Pluribus Unum; george76
RE :”Have a unit there and ticket those drivers where it can be SEEN - that is the only effective deterrent.”

Our cops are downright sneaky in jet black stealthy shaped marked cars with flat roof lights to be hard to be seen till its too late, and they feed at dusk or cloudy days when hard to make them out. They can nail you with radar through their front passenger side door window while poking out of a side street.

My next blog post will be about their tricks.

That is why non-moving fine cameras don't bother me.

29 posted on 06/07/2013 8:40:42 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

And you decrease accidents by about 20% IIRC. But far too many politicians could not care less.


30 posted on 06/07/2013 8:41:58 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: george76

They could do what we did in Anaheim,Ca. The residents voted to never have red light cameras in the city. The residents of this town should do the same. People have the right to control their lives, all they have to do is take charge.


31 posted on 06/07/2013 8:43:51 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: george76
People vote with their feet, wheels and wallets and the traps come down. That's freedom.
We are not flies to be caught.

32 posted on 06/07/2013 8:46:38 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: piytar

Florida cities are doing it all over the place. IMO they’ve pretty well admitted it is for only for the “revenue”

The government has endless euphemisms for confiscating your money. Most of the methods are nothing short of outright theft, usually with intimidation.


33 posted on 06/07/2013 8:48:53 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: george76

Frankly, why would a small town need traffic lights in the first place? It’s all a big fat scam.


34 posted on 06/07/2013 8:49:50 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: george76

Some solutions:

http://photoradarscam.com/protest.php

and there are various spray-on products and LED license frames that block the camera image.


35 posted on 06/07/2013 8:52:54 PM PDT by gotribe (Limit The Government's Right To Bear Arms)
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To: gotribe

“and there are various spray-on products and LED license frames that block the camera image.”

Would these spray on products include hot Tar and Feathers?

I think that would solve the problem at the source and save us from having to mess with are cars.


36 posted on 06/07/2013 8:55:35 PM PDT by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: george76; ADemocratNoMore; Akron Al; arbee4bush; agrace; ATOMIC_PUNK; Badeye; Bikers4Bush; ...

Ohio Ping
Article is about suburb of Cincinnati

#16 refers to phone app

Maryland speed camera vans

http://howardcountyspeedtrap.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-speed-camera-vans-in-howard-county.html


37 posted on 06/07/2013 8:58:35 PM PDT by Whenifhow
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To: sickoflibs

Back when the speed limit was 55, My husband and I were on a long road returning to Texas from New Mexico.

We had this conversation about the slow speed, about the amount of officers they had per mile on the lonely highway we were traveling. IOW, if we increased our speed, what are the chances of getting caught?

It was late, well past twilight, we decided they couldn’t have more than 1 per 100 mile stretch, so boosted it up to 70. I’m saying, we were out in the middle of nowhere. Nowhere !

As soon as we increased speed, a NMHP had his lights on us.

Rolling down the window, my husband says “ my wife and I were discussing how many patrol units were out here, we decided 1 in 100 miles......would you be he?”

LOL!

I don’t mind sneaky. Where the heck did this guy come from? No matter. We were breaking the law...going above the speed limit.

I’d rather have listened to that humorous exchange than get some stupid picture in the mail. Or perhaps I’m just old fashioned.


38 posted on 06/07/2013 9:05:07 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: DariusBane

Agree.

I say we all need some target practice. Bring that “evil” gun to an intersection near you and fire away!


39 posted on 06/07/2013 9:10:21 PM PDT by ASouthernGrl (BHO sucks - literally or metaphorically, you decide.)
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To: KittenClaws
RE :”I don’t mind sneaky. Where the heck did this guy come from? No matter. We were breaking the law...going above the speed limit.
I’d rather have listened to that humorous exchange than get some stupid picture in the mail. Or perhaps I’m just old fashioned.”

The picture in the mail does not have points with it, the cop's ticket to you gives you points against you licence.

I have a completely different experience. The few tickets I got in my life from cop cars were when I was under duress, one decades ago after my dad died and a family fight, the last one was I got no sleep at all the night before, each time I let my guard down and was not paying close watch. I have heard this claim before and it defies logic.

Each case I was able to replay events and understand how they got me and what my mistake was.

Maryland uses unmarked cop cars too. So that takes special diligence and I make it a game to ID them while driving.

Now I use a Iphone NAV app that includes reporting police and gives alerts for police and traffic so that is more fun.

I dont believe that cop who got you just appeared in thin air.

40 posted on 06/07/2013 9:17:00 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: ASouthernGrl

From Suburban Commando:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT2-WbbPvbo


41 posted on 06/07/2013 9:35:14 PM PDT by where's_the_Outrage? (Held my nose to vote.)
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To: sickoflibs
I dont believe that cop who got you just appeared in thin air.

Well, of course he didn't. Have you ever traveled between Carlsbad, NM and Odessa, TX? there is no place to hide, but plenty of places to blend in.

What I left out of this story is, we didn't get a ticket. The officer was polite and friendly, as I'm sure a camera would not be.

BTW, with or without a ticket, we would not have needed to replay events. We KNEW we were speeding.

I once drove from Pecos to Ft.Stockton at over 90 MPH when my grandfather died. I had my flashers on for the sake of other drivers, but totally expected a ticket. Personal issues are No defense to breaking the law.

Cameras don't change the facts, they are just lazy.

42 posted on 06/07/2013 9:35:40 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: sickoflibs
My condolences to your living in THE Freak state.
43 posted on 06/07/2013 9:50:25 PM PDT by ogen hal (First amendment or reeducation camp)
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To: KittenClaws
RE:”Personal issues are No defense to breaking the law.”

Who said they were? I said the complete opposite. To have to repeat, When we got those tickets its because we were not paying attention.

Now you tell me the cop didn’t cite you for ‘breaking the law’ even though he caught you, as you put it.

If you are not smarter than a highly visible and well known (published location) traffic trap cam, then you deserve a simple fine.

44 posted on 06/07/2013 9:55:53 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: ogen hal
RE :”My condolences to your living in THE Freak”

Yep, They are sheep here for sure.

See 20 and 29 for my followup on that comment.

45 posted on 06/07/2013 9:59:29 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs

Where do you reside?

Texas or New Mexico?


46 posted on 06/07/2013 10:03:11 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: sickoflibs

Because if you don’t reside in either, don’t tell me what cops will or will not do to honest people.

And, I don’t need to be smarter than a damn camera. A camera is an inanimate object incapable of thought. They are a travesty of justice.


47 posted on 06/07/2013 10:07:12 PM PDT by KittenClaws ( You may have to fight a battle more than once in order to win it." - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Jonty30

You should. They are almost never put in for safety issues. It’s all about revenue collection. Many places futz with the light times. They also have been shown to be positioned at incorrect angles to garner more tickets.

And besides, there was a case just recently where a guy won because the picture taken doesn’t show who’s driving the car, the ticket is just sent to who it is registered to. Won the case - they did not prove he was the one driving.

This is now going to be the technique to defeat the speed/redlight revenue generators.


48 posted on 06/07/2013 10:17:36 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: KittenClaws; jsanders2001; Jonty30; rockrr; E. Pluribus Unum; george76; ...
RE :”Because if you don’t reside in either, don’t tell me what cops will or will not do to honest people.”

Look, your argument is completely ridiculous.

Claiming that we should raise a big stink about fixed position well known location traffic law violation ‘fine only’ cams just because your local police have always let you off the hook every time they caught you breaking the law, just because they like the way you look.

I don't give a crap about your claims that your police are so gullible (unlike a cam) that your great personality only works to get you off with a human being not a camera. That is just nonsense arguments.

49 posted on 06/07/2013 11:00:54 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: smokingfrog
"It’s not about public safety, it’s about generating revenue for the city."

Yep we been going through the same crap in our town. Property taxes falling due to foreclosures and real estate prices crashing meaning local tax levies producing less and less drying up the city coffers.

So the brilliant new female mayor decides to suddenly enforce a badly worded ordinance that makes anyone who owns a recreational camping trailer and parks it on there property in violation if they don't move it every 48 hours. (The ordinance was to keep people leaving junk cars sitting around in their yards. At one time it got pretty bad around here with dozens of housing with up to 15 cars on their property and not one capable of being driven.)

The service director issued 23 fines in a single day at 500 bucks a piece. Two days later his car and the mayors both got cement blocks through the windshield with notes attached saying change the ordinance now.

Council repealed the law unanimously and also repealed it retroactively so none of the fines issued were valid. No one investigated the windshield incidents because they knew no one was gonna talk.

50 posted on 06/07/2013 11:16:59 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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