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1 posted on 06/02/2013 1:37:47 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

But with the P51 vs. the Zero, inexperienced pilots were beating experienced Japanese pilots.


2 posted on 06/02/2013 1:44:22 AM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
his/her skills

I wasn't aware of females having a history of success in air combat that justified the inclusion of them as a sex.

3 posted on 06/02/2013 1:59:57 AM PDT by ansel12 (Social liberalism/libertarianism, empowers, creates and imports, and breeds, economic liberals.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I was watching the Military Channel and one of the great historical “what ifs” that never took place. That of jet to jet fighter combat in World War II.

The British Gloster Meteor was never in a dog fight with a German ME-262. The British viewed them as too strategic an asset to lose over occupied territory and they were used exclusively to intercept V weapons.


4 posted on 06/02/2013 2:14:42 AM PDT by PittsburghAfterDark
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Can people stop having airgasms over the Cobra Maneuver? It's impressive at airshows but in combat an aircraft would have to to lose airspeed to do it making themselves a sitting duck.
7 posted on 06/02/2013 2:24:01 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Thanks for the posting


9 posted on 06/02/2013 3:17:19 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Sukhoi’s thesis is correct, it’s the pilot that makes the difference (this same principle applies to tank and armored vehicle crews). The best example of this is the two highest scoring squadrons of the Battle of Britain. Those squadrons were 301 and 303 (the Kosciusko Squadron). The Polish pilots made up 10% of the force for the RAF and were flying the older Hurricane Hawkers vice the Spitfire during this period. They scored 40% of the kills against the Luftwaffe. If you want a really good read, check out the book “A Question of Honor” by Lynn Olsen and Stanley Cloud.


10 posted on 06/02/2013 4:05:58 AM PDT by Bill Russell
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Another simple comparison of aircraft would have had the Japanese Zeros making mincemeat of the Flying Tiger P-40s.

Didn’t turn out that way in real life.


11 posted on 06/02/2013 4:13:59 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
You're not going to win any dogfight with that first picture of a spitfire- it's a PR, photographic reconaissance variant... no guns. Also , it seems to be one of the later, griffon powered versions.

CC

13 posted on 06/02/2013 4:18:45 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (tease not the dragon for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

There was still Adolph Galland’s reply to Göring during the Battle of Britain when der Dicke asked if there was anything he could do to help the Luftwaffe fighter arm. Gallandly famous replied, “Ja, get me a squadron of Spitfires!”

During the Battle of Britain the Messerschmidts were disadvantaged because of limited flying range. They only had about five minuted of fuel to fight over London, and many experienced Luftwaffe pilots were lost in the Channel. By the end of the War many raw Luftwaffe pilots entered combat with fewer hours air time than a U.S. pilot would be required to have to solo. Hitler anticipated a short war and the Luftwaffe did not establish a pipeline to train more new pilots to sustain it through the War. The Japanese had the same problem.

The U.S. Eighth Air Force specifically had the task of defeating the fighter arm of the Luftwaffe. The Luftwaffe had stopped sending up fighters to defend against bombing raids against cities or other targets except Berlin and oil fields, in order to preserve their limited strength to repel the coming invasion of Europe. The Eighth Air Force attacked Berlin, using B-17’s as live bait to force the Luftwaffe to respond. Almost 60,000 Americans were killed in the air war over Europe, but in the end, the Luftwaffe was defeated.


14 posted on 06/02/2013 4:40:59 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Doing the same thing and expecting different results is called software engineering.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Bf 109E (Battle of Britain)


18 posted on 06/02/2013 5:30:02 AM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
What about F-14 vs. Zero?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3XNEWtJF0o

20 posted on 06/02/2013 5:34:09 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The Italians had a bomber, the Piaggio P-108, which was roughly the equivalent of the B-17, but only a few were built. Perhaps the Germans should have ordered a few hundred of them.


23 posted on 06/02/2013 5:47:17 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Everything I read about the Battle of Britain showed me that the BF109 was superior to the Spitfires, but the Luftwaffe pilots were too focused on their fuel levels to fight effectively just so they had a chance to make it all the way back to base on the continent.


31 posted on 06/02/2013 6:05:41 AM PDT by EricT. (Another Muslim terrorist. Who saw that coming?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I remember speaking to an old pilot who described an air engagement to me.

He was very animated and described the engagement using grand sweeping movements with his hands as aircraft to describe the engagement, with matching narration:

“I came out of the cloud bank and the Fokker was right there, as soon as he saw me, the Fokker dived right back into the clouds.....and I lost him. Then out of nowhere, the Fokker came at me, guns blazing from the direction of the sun.”

I asked him how did he finally defeat the Fokker. He replied: “Fokker? No, that Fokker was a Messerschmitt”


34 posted on 06/02/2013 6:08:32 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: sukhoi-30mki
...training the pilot has received and his/her skills

Lost interesting in reading right there.

40 posted on 06/02/2013 6:28:57 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Reading this article, a couple of things came to mind:

-There was a pre-war (late 1930’s) fighter called the Brewster Buffalo. From what I’ve read, it became obsolete rather quickly in U.S. forces, and wasn’t much loved by the Brits and Dutch, who got surplus ones. The Finns, however, chewed up entire squadrons of Soviet fighters with the little bugger.

-Regarding the Flanker...there was a Cold War-era unit in the USAF called “Constant Peg” where U.S. pilots would fly captured/acquired Soviet fighters in training missions. They never had a Flanker, of course. They did get to fly MiG-15’s, 21’s and 27’s. It was really interesting to read about the quirks each design had. Apparently, the ‘23 was the toughest to fly and most pilots hated to take the thing up in the air at all.


41 posted on 06/02/2013 6:30:25 AM PDT by DemforBush (Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia!)
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To: zot

good articel and photo spitfire, bf-109 and others


42 posted on 06/02/2013 6:36:02 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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