Human error blamed in deaths of 7 Marines during training

CNN ^ | Wed May 29, 2013 | Barbara Starr

[ltc8k6]

“The investigation also determined that the 60 mm mortar functioned properly and that the weapon system is safe when used as designed by properly trained Marines. The mortars are back in use after training on them was suspended following the accident, officials said.”

[bboop]

Oh, you misunderstand. I very much love and support the armed forces. I think you misread me/ or I did not write carefully. There’s not spit left from my liberal years beyond disdain.

[bravo whiskey]

I was under the impression that fuses aren’t actually set until the round leaves the tube.

in my 107mm mortar platoon, the rounds had a shotgun shell in the bottom which was set off by a firing pin at the bottom of the tube. if this is the case here the second round would have hit the nose of the first round setting the second round off early

[bboop]

‘Scuze me -
I am sorry these young men died.
I admire them for joining the service
My heart breaks for them, for their families.
I know nothing about munitions or the details of this accident.
I am so sorry they died.

[em2vn]

I learned as a sailor going through weapons training at Camp Pendleton in the late 60s just how human error can occur.
A Navy Ensign though a mortar round would work just fine if it was dropped into a mortar tube with the fins up.
The Ensign rolled a good distance after the Marine Sergeant running the drill slapped him on the side of the head while grabbing the round.

[Dick Vomer]

I'm sorry ken5050 it doesn't wash. That's the point they made I think. It's a culture from command down. If you were in the service, and I assume you were since a grenade is in your history, you know that you are taught to do things over and over and over and over.

One step follows the other, especially when it comes to weapons systems. No deviation from prepping to aiming to loading etc... if they thought the mortar went off but weren't sure the tube was clear then somebody wasn't paying attention. That someone was trained that after every round goes out a check is done.. something made him think that he didn't have to check or wasn't rote memorized enough to become part of his muscle memory.

... just think about every time you open a bolt and look down into the chamber. you don't even think about it, because you've done it 1000's of times. That just means that somehow they reviewed this unit and maybe found out that they took short cuts or occasionally were lax in discipline....just enough to let it become dangerous.

I don't know but all I know is that the man in command is probably feeling like he let those 7 men down. At least the senior NCOs do.

I had a liner from my helmet "twang" and my helmet spun around from somebody "accidentally" drawing across me with his g#@damn finger on the trigger in a live fire exercise. Joking around grab assing and only 1 person would have died. Me.

I almost smashed his skull in when I quit shaking but his fire team and squad leader paid the price..... then he paid the price.

Those brave men lost their lives and now that I'm older realize that they gave their lives so that future Marines can be saved by being reminded of their deaths and as that vivid memory of a bill of a DI's cover hammering into my forehead, "Pay attention to detail all the time, not just once in awhile, not just most of the time, not when your belly's full or when your ugly girlfriend was nice to you... all the time.....you miserable turd."

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[Born to Conserve]

“The investigation also determined that the 60 mm mortar functioned properly and that the weapon system is safe”

Not only is the system not safe, the investigation is also faulty.

[ltc8k6]

Generally the fuses are not armed until the round exits the tube. There are different methods for doing that.

[ken5050]

You may be correct. I’m not arguing with you, per se..first of all, we’d need to read the entire incident investigation report..not just a few blurbs in a CNN article. And it may well be that there was a deficiency in training, and command. But it could also just have been an “accident”..the golden BB..the one time the S**T does in fact hit the fan. I repeart..for how many years, at exactly the same configured range, were the exact same methods used to train tens of thousandsa of Marines SAFELY? The USAF has a specific procedure for investigating accidents, where no blame is attached..just a total attempt to obtain the truth. Sadly, in our military today, starting at the Puzzle Palace, there is far too much CYA and PC...so three Marines with until now exemplary records may, I repeat, MAY have been sacrificed so that we can say that someone is blamed. It’s the same thing with doctors today...stuff happens, sometimes inexplicably, yet we expect perfection from our doctors, and when it doesn’t happen, we sue them.