I like America, I like Americans, wouldnt be here otherwise. I have lived in your lovely country (2004-05) and wish to return. Most British do like America (ignore the vocal minority that dont).
Ill ignore the tiresome reference to WW1/2.
I am sick of the bashing Britain is getting here today. On what is supposed to be an Anglophile site. Sneering at our police, our armed police, the British people. Our laws, our way of life. All this whilst a British soldier lies hacked to death in my country.
Frankly, I am not in the bloody mood for sneering Americans today.
If I was even half as unpleasant after 9-11 or Boston, I would be a vile snobby little Brit, and rightly called so.
So, yes, I am being blunt.
If people in the US dont like the way the UK does things, dont come.
I think Americans like the Great Britain the way it used to be, much as many Brits like America the way it used to be.
A few of us here appreciate our British friends. Thanks for sharing your views and knowledge with us.
“And of course Britain’s citizenry is disarmed also.”..
Was it not reported that one of the killers indeed had a gun, along with a knife? Yep, the citizens of Britain are disarmed alright. (Reminds me of Chicago).
“If people in the US dont like the way the UK does things, dont come.”
Thank you, and if you don’t like sneering Americans, move back to the U.K. Fine by me, no loss.
Part of it is the nature of the forum as a medium. Most people don't read the whole thread before replying. So if there is something to which they take askance, they'll say answer before observing the context provided by later conversation.
It sucks, but it's just how things are.
You’re not a Brit. You’re a Scotsman. Only by force of arms is there a United Kingdom.
I can relate. It's something akin to explaining to my fellow conservatives why I still live in California. Although, I think California is possibly worse than Briton (Just a guess as I have never been to Briton. It just feels that way).
Then again, I've seen good American conservatives mercilessly go for each other's jugular about one state versus another...let alone one country versus another.
We love Britian, but we have a problem being honest, without insulting you, in part because your position is naturally shameful (in a technical, psychological sense). Any honest discussion of it will tend to come off as an attack because of this. Conservative Americans are very group-centric. As a result, our urges promote very little shame, since they will usually be pro-group (shame being an urge designed to correct individualistic behavior, replacing it with group-centric behavior within the group). Where your position evokes shame, it is because it isn’t group-centric, but individualistic. (for the record, I’m not attacking you here, but given our group-centric evolutionary history, being completely honest will come off that way in places.)
When you oppose arming your countrymen, and your police, you say two things. One, you think you are better than them, because you can own a gun, but they are not good enough to do what you do, as responsibly as you do. You also say you think things like what happened to your soldier are not important enough for everybody to get involved to stop it. It is not the individual citizen’s responsibility to stop it, because you are not responsible for each other.
American Conservatives see this differently - much more group-centrically. A soldier getting killed in our street is everyone’s problem – each of us, individually. Every one of us has a responsibility to get involved, and deal with it. Because of that, all of us should have the right to be armed. Standing around in shock, helpless, is not an option. Our motivation to support arming everyone is the motivation to stop that from happening.
Where our police need to deal with this, we want them armed too – not only so they can stop it, but because they are our brothers, and we want them as capable as we are. We want them able to defend themselves, because we care about them as we care about our own loved ones, whom we would alo want armed. To us, expecting them to face this unarmed would be disloyal to them, and unappreciative of their willingness to sacrifice for us. In America, we are all a team, and our willingnes to see everyone armed is an expression of love and loyalty for each other.
To us, the British culture you describe has a weird sense of hostility among citizens, where everyone suspiciously views everyone else as incapable and untrustworthy, and needing control, lest they hurt someone else. Where a soldier murdered in the street by a Muslim Terrorist is preferable to trusting fellow citizens who choose to to arm up to take the coure, get licensed, and carry the means by which to stop it. The policy you support only makes sense if you view a sizable number of your fellow citizens as untrustworthy scumbags, and believe they would do worse if allowed to carry.
Again, I am not attacking you, but in honestly describing urges which are consistent with selfishness and distrust of compatriots, and contrary to the group-centric urges we are programmed to expect from in-group members, it will come off as an attack.
I am mainly being honest, because it is how I would want you to be with me. If after Sept 11th, I was supporting things which would have lost the War on Terror for America, and you called me on it because you wanted America to win, I would have respected and appreciated that.
Here, we want the decent folk of Britain to win (The Leftist traitors can and should burn). These things will get worse. We know the Euro is coming down. A banking crisis is likely to follow. As the economy goes down, it will affect food availability and distribution. Muslims aren’t playing well with others now, when everything is rosey. How many do you think will turn to Jihad once that collapse happens, and those losers are hungry and bitter, and they see you guys eating and comfortable? You may look like 90’s Bosnia, maybe even 80’s Lebannon.
You good folk of Britain will have to trust and rely on each other, if you are to make it through that storm with your freedom. You will need to view cops as compatriots, citizens as compatriots, and military as compatriots, all of you the responsibility for each other. You will all need the tools to protect each other, and you will all have to trust each other. If you don’t make that adjustment at some point, it will be brutal, because each of you will end up as alone as that soldier. Freedom and British greatness will die with you, and all that will be left is savagery and oppression.
Again, I wouldn’t waste time posting to you if I didn’t care about your nation, and its good people.
Good luck.
“If people in the US don’t like the UK does things don’t come’’<< I don’t know how many Americans are packing up and moving to the UK but there seems to be a hell of a lot of Brits packing up and coming here.