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FOX CABLE NEWS IS REPORTING 24 3RD GRADERS HAVE PERISHED IN OKLAHOMA.
FOX NEWS ^ | 5/20/2013 | Fox News

Posted on 05/20/2013 4:54:37 PM PDT by stockpirate

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To: stockpirate
The wind speed was over 200 MPH, makes everything a bullet.

Exactly, and the building they were ordered to stay in by authority figures became a weapon of mass destruction.

451 posted on 05/21/2013 3:41:01 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: reg45
You can’t run from a tornado.

Sure you can, if you're not ordered to stay where you are by government authority figures.

A lot of these kids would have been a lot better off in the open and on the ground in a low spot.

452 posted on 05/21/2013 3:44:04 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper

It’s better than sending children running out into the streets, where 100% would be killed.


453 posted on 05/21/2013 4:04:08 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Vermont Lt
That sports photography analogy would work well for a storm chaser, but it's not the same as someone trying to get as far away from a storm track as possible. In a car you would have mirrors anyway.

Running with your head turned like that would generate a big pull through your fascia and mess with gait, proprioception, the vestibular system, etc. Is 45 degrees the practical limit for that, besides just keeping your eye on things?

454 posted on 05/21/2013 4:33:50 PM PDT by Styria
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Of course in real life, you'd have to be real lucky and find a road that veers off at the correct angle for any of that to apply.

Out there, in some of those state, they have a county dirt road matrix that surrounds the sections (square miles) so you could zig zag.

I know that's the big limit for applying the maneuvering board to land, but tornados usually don't run parallel to the roads either where you take off at a right angle. I just wanted to show how you'd solve it geometrically.

455 posted on 05/21/2013 4:42:37 PM PDT by Styria
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To: SampleMan
It’s better than sending children running out into the streets, where 100% would be killed.

Not necessarily, Mr. Authority Figure.

456 posted on 05/21/2013 4:50:24 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper

Yes it is. Simple fact. You may not survive an F5 inside a building, a basement, or even a bunker, but you100% won’t survive it if you are outside above ground. What exactly do you think a 3rd grader would do if you told them there was a tornado and that they should run away?

Think of tornadoes like artillery fire. You don’t survive in the open.


457 posted on 05/21/2013 5:05:57 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: elkfersupper

Of course, I remember that, too, from grade school. Still, I believe any of those kids didnt stand a chance. I imagine a top F-5 tornado is impossible to run from. Though I wonder about the kids they sent to a nearby church. How much advance time did they have? Though they might have had time to run, the school is still a safer place to to take cover.


458 posted on 05/21/2013 5:56:56 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (http://thegatwickview.tumblr.com/)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

If I had known about them years ago (did they even exist years ago?) I would already have one. Being older and retired, It’ll take a while to get the bucks.


459 posted on 05/21/2013 7:32:40 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Styria

You dont have to run far. Usually behind a cheerleader. They make for good cushions.


460 posted on 05/21/2013 7:56:31 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?)
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To: Vermont Lt

Bury your head? =)


461 posted on 05/21/2013 8:11:38 PM PDT by Styria
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To: elkfersupper

You have got to be kidding. You don’t run from a twister almost two miles wide.


462 posted on 05/21/2013 10:21:52 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: SampleMan
Yes it is. Simple fact. You may not survive an F5 inside a building, a basement, or even a bunker

Exactly. That is why every kid raised in tornado country was and should be taught to get flat in a low spot or a culvert and stay there until it's over. That's what I was taught.

Had my elementary school teacher told me to cower in the corner of a government building built by the lowest bidder, I would have taken my chances on the open prairie.

463 posted on 05/22/2013 3:01:27 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: InvisibleChurch
the school is still a safer place to to take cover.

A ditch is a safer place to take cover.

464 posted on 05/22/2013 3:03:16 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: RobbyS
You have got to be kidding.

No, I have survived several of them by getting flat in a low spot away from potential flying debris.

The last place I would want to be would be a government building constructed by the lowest bidder.

465 posted on 05/22/2013 3:08:16 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper

whata bout a basement in a school?


466 posted on 05/22/2013 3:13:20 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (http://thegatwickview.tumblr.com/)
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To: InvisibleChurch
whata bout a basement in a school?

Still a government building built by the lowest bidder.

A lot of these kids drowned. What better place to do that than in a basement?

467 posted on 05/22/2013 3:22:38 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper

http://www.ktul.com/story/22392743/update-10-children-killed-in-moore-tornado

...Five of the children’s cause of death was listed as “mechanical asphyxia.” The Medical Examiner’s office noted that mechanical asphyxia can refer to drowning, but in this case all the deaths were due to suffocation...


468 posted on 05/22/2013 3:26:53 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: elkfersupper

a ditch? i understand the idea of a ditch is that the tornado “hops” over it, but still, I think under the circumstances there was no good option


469 posted on 05/22/2013 3:28:52 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (http://thegatwickview.tumblr.com/)
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To: InvisibleChurch
I think under the circumstances there was no good option

Well, then you need to move you and yours to tornado country. It then becomes self-explanatory.

470 posted on 05/22/2013 3:39:16 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: jjotto
Okay, buddy or lady or whatever you are, but I can still say that if I were a 3rd-grader with free will (which I once was and does not exist anymore), I would have taken my chances in the open.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

471 posted on 05/22/2013 3:44:22 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper
Okay, buddy or lady or whatever you are, but I can still say that if I were a 3rd-grader with free will (which I once was and does not exist anymore), I would have taken my chances in the open.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

So you are telling us that you’ve rode out EF5 tornados out in the open? Yea, sure that’s the ticket.

472 posted on 05/22/2013 4:22:37 PM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: elkfersupper

i live in indiana . what I’m saying is that THIS particular tornado, an F5, wasn’t going to leave many survivors . I don’t think the kids running at 90deg angles or lying in a ditch were going to survive this tornado. If you do, well, fine.


473 posted on 05/22/2013 4:53:49 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (http://thegatwickview.tumblr.com/)
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To: elkfersupper
That is why every kid raised in tornado country was and should be taught to get flat in a low spot or a culvert and stay there until it's over. That's what I was taught.

You were taught wrong. Laying flat on the ground is only what you do if there is absolutely no other option. Anyone laying flat on the ground during that Oklahoma twister would just be dead.

Had my elementary school teacher told me to cower in the corner of a government building built by the lowest bidder, I would have taken my chances on the open prairie.

First, those kids were miles from open prairie, second if you are out on the open prairie and get hit by an F5, you're dead.

I don't think you have any inkling of what 250mph winds do to people and things. I've seen people tossed like rag dolls by 100mph winds.

474 posted on 05/22/2013 5:27:49 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: elkfersupper

Well, I will be heading for my local bank which has a vault.


475 posted on 05/22/2013 8:19:08 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
Well, I will be heading for my local bank which has a vault.

1) They won't let you in there.

2)They won't let you in the vault.

476 posted on 05/23/2013 2:46:08 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: MD Expat in PA
So you are telling us that you’ve rode out EF5 tornados out in the open? Yea, sure that’s the ticket.

Well, I have an 85-year-old uncle who was with me.

If you want 3rd-party confirmation, I guess I could buy him a computer, guide him through the signup process, explain the protocols to him and let him do that.

477 posted on 05/23/2013 2:52:35 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: SampleMan
You were taught wrong.

Do not speak to me about things of which you have no knowledge.

I'm sitting outside Moore, OK with a 5th wheel in tow, which I intend to deliver to my cousin, who lost everything but the slab on his house.

I'm doing this because his and his family' s recovery from this will take months if not years and housing will be in short supply.

If not for the people with select-fire weapons and military tanks preventing my progress, I would already be there.

I am 61 years old and have lived in "tornado alley" all my life. I'm just relating the facts. You can like them and agree with them or not. Does not matter to me.

Fact remains that those people survived by doing exactly what I described.

They're still missing an 18 year old, but she is smart enough to have survived and will be fine.

478 posted on 05/23/2013 3:21:21 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper
Do not speak to me about things of which you have no knowledge.

Of destructive force, effects on people in the open, and tornadoes, I have plenty of knowledge.

Physics are a fact, your age and location don't mean much. I find that people that are wrong at 30 are generally wrong at 60 too. I've had a lot of people insist that they are safer getting thrown clear of an accident than being belted in too. At a certain point you just let people do what they want, as long as they aren't forcing their silliness on others.

So you hold onto the grass, and I'll get in the basement.

479 posted on 05/23/2013 4:01:24 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan
At a certain point you just let people do what they want, as long as they aren't forcing their silliness on others

Agreed.

So the authority figures at that school did not force their silliness on elementary school kids.

480 posted on 05/23/2013 4:20:45 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: elkfersupper
So the authority figures at that school did not force their silliness on elementary school kids.

You've got the right as a parent to keep your children home and send them out in the open during a 300mph brick and wood slam fest, so no, no one was forced to take protective cover.

481 posted on 05/24/2013 5:13:41 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: elkfersupper

it depends on who the “they” are. The vault, of course, will hold a limited #.


482 posted on 05/24/2013 2:33:41 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: SampleMan; elkfersupper
“So you are telling us that you’ve rode out EF5 tornados out in the open? Yea, sure that’s the ticket.”

Well, I have an 85-year-old uncle who was with me. If you want 3rd-party confirmation, I guess I could buy him a computer, guide him through the signup process, explain the protocols to him and let him do that.

If you rode out a direct hit by even one EF5 tornado by lying in a low spot in an open field, I’d be quite impressed and congratulate you as being one very lucky dude. If you rode out more than one direct hit by an EF5 tornado while lying in a low spot in an open field, you should buy a lottery ticket. Certainly surviving an EF5 should be a memorable enough event for you to not to have your 85-year uncle vouch for you. You should be able to give us the date, the place and probably very nearly the exact time it occurred.

A lot of these kids would have been a lot better off in the open and on the ground in a low spot.

In tornadoes most people are killed or seriously injured by flying debris. While you might, if the tornado doesn’t come right over you, be relatively safer in a low lying ditch than completely out in the open, if of course you had nowhere else to go, but consider that the debris ball from a large tornado can be twice as large as the tornado itself. While you may survive the tornado force winds (assuming it doesn’t pick you up and drop you some miles away) and some debris by getting as low as possible, if you are out in the open, there is nothing to stop the debris, debris that in a big tornado might include, cars, trucks, semi’s, large trees, and chunk of building debris from raining down on you.

So the authority figures at that school did not force their silliness on elementary school kids.

While it is sad that there were lives lost, especially those of children; of the 24 confirmed deaths (which considering the size and violence of this tornado, was much lower than originally reported or expected), 7 of them were children at the Plaza Towers elementary school. But the thing that people should keep in mind is that it was a miracle that only 7 kids died in that building considering the direct hit it took and that there was nearly 500 children, teachers and other adults who sought shelter in that bad, poorly built and evil “government” building and that at Briarwood Elementary another bad, poorly built and evil “government” building a few miles away which was also in the direct path, no one lost their lives.

But if they were to have followed your “advice”, as the EF5 tornado was bearing down on them, the teachers should have flung all the doors of the school open and told the kids to run; “Run Forest! Run!”,”Run like Hell” and “You’re on your own now, may the fastest runners among you survive” and get to the nearest open field and find a low spot and hang on to any blade of grass you can find or a cow if one is nearby. Yea. Right. I don’t know how many kids you know who are of kindergarten to 3rd or 4th grade age but although my great nieces and nephews are some very bright kids, they are little kids and I can’t imagine telling them to run away from a tornado and find the closest ditch to hide in all on their own.

And speaking of open fields and cows, watch this. Some of that “debris” flying around are cows.

Tornado and Cows, April 14 2012, southwest of Salina near Langley KS.

So perhaps hanging out with and on to cows in an open field during a tornado is not such a good idea after all.

Getting into a ditch is the best thing to do if AND ONLY IF no other shelter is available. I would concede that you “might” be better off in a ditch than in a trailer/mobile home or car. But you want to put as much mass and or as many sturdy structures and walls between you and the flying projectiles as possible. You want to protect you head as much as possible as you are most likely to be killed by taking a direct hit to the head by debris, even small debris or even softball sized hail. Completely underground is best but even in an underground storm shelter, a bike, motor cycle or football helmet is probably not a bad idea.

Safest Places to Be During a Tornado

483 posted on 05/24/2013 3:36:42 PM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: MD Expat in PA; elkfersupper
The projectile stuck through the curb really demonstrates all that really needs to be said. An F5 tornado is a 300mph hail storm full of bricks and spears; expecting to survive it in the open is foolish at best. The odds of finding 6 cubic feet that haven't been penetrated by deadly debris is about nil, and as you pointed it, that totally ignores the likelihood of becoming a projectile yourself.

Interesting that every other object that was out there laying flat on the ground, became a missile.

484 posted on 05/24/2013 5:47:46 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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