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To: SvenMagnussen

“”The facts were these: one Steinkauler, a Prussian subject by birth, emigrated to the United States in 1848, was naturalized in 1854, and in the following year had a son who was born in St. Louis. Four years later, Steinkauler returned to Germany, taking this child, and became domiciled at Weisbaden, where they continuously resided. When the son reached the age of twenty years, the German Government called upon him to report for military duty, and his father then invoked the intervention of the American Legation on the ground that his son was a native citizen of the United States. To an inquiry by our Minister, the father declined to give an assurance that the son would return to this country within a reasonable time. On reviewing the pertinent points in the case, including the Naturalization Treaty of 1868 with North Germany, 15 Stat. 615, the Attorney General reached the following conclusion:

“Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen. There is no law of the United States under which his father or any other person can deprive him of his birthright. He can return to America at the age of twenty-one, and in due time, if the people elect, he can become President of the United States; but the father, in accordance with the treaty and the laws, has renounced his American citizenship and his American allegiance and has acquired for himself and his son German citizenship and the rights which it carries and he must take the burdens as well as the advantages. The son being domiciled with the father and subject to him under the law during his minority, and receiving the German protection where he has acquired nationality and declining to give any assurance of ever returning to the United States and claiming his American nationality by residence here, I am of the opinion that he cannot rightly invoke the aid of the Government of the United States to relieve him from military duty in Germany during his minority. But I am of opinion that, when he reaches the age of twenty-one years, he can then elect whether he will return and take the nationality of his birth with its duties and privileges, or retain the nationality acquired by the act of his father. This seems to me to be ‘right reason,’ and I think it is law.”


55 posted on 02/14/2013 7:40:07 AM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: Mr Rogers

So in essence, we can’t deny the possibility that Obama, as a small child of sound mind, acting on his own ‘COULD’ have renounced his U.S. citizenship if he wanted to and it would have been granted?


56 posted on 02/14/2013 8:19:27 AM PST by Cold Case Posse Supporter
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To: Mr Rogers

“”The facts were these: one Steinkauler, a Prussian subject by birth, emigrated to the United States in 1848, was naturalized in 1854, and in the following year had a son who was born in St. Louis. Four years later, Steinkauler returned to Germany, taking this child, and became domiciled at Weisbaden, where they continuously resided. When the son reached the age of twenty years, the German Government called upon him to report for military duty, and his father then invoked the intervention of the American Legation on the ground that his son was a native citizen of the United States. To an inquiry by our Minister, the father declined to give an assurance that the son would return to this country within a reasonable time. On reviewing the pertinent points in the case, including the Naturalization Treaty of 1868 with North Germany, 15 Stat. 615, the Attorney General reached the following conclusion:

“Young Steinkauler is a native-born American citizen. There is no law of the United States under which his father or any other person can deprive him of his birthright. He can return to America at the age of twenty-one, and in due time, if the people elect, he can become President of the United States; but the father, in accordance with the treaty and the laws, has renounced his American citizenship and his American allegiance and has acquired for himself and his son German citizenship and the rights which it carries and he must take the burdens as well as the advantages. The son being domiciled with the father and subject to him under the law during his minority, and receiving the German protection where he has acquired nationality and declining to give any assurance of ever returning to the United States and claiming his American nationality by residence here, I am of the opinion that he cannot rightly invoke the aid of the Government of the United States to relieve him from military duty in Germany during his minority. But I am of opinion that, when he reaches the age of twenty-one years, he can then elect whether he will return and take the nationality of his birth with its duties and privileges, or retain the nationality acquired by the act of his father. This seems to me to be ‘right reason,’ and I think it is law.”

The decision to issue a Certificate of Loss of Nationality from the U.S. State Department to a dual citizen who moves out of the U.S. and effectively renounces their U.S. citizenship by a preponderance of the evidence is discretionary. See SCOTUS opinion, Vance v. Terrazas (1980).

Congress wrote major changes to the INA after SCOTUS issued its opinion in Vance v. Terrazas. To date, most Secretaries of State decide to maintain a “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard when it comes to issuing a CLN. For example, it’s unlikely SoS Hillary Clinton would issue a CLN to a 5-year-old dual citizen who moved out of the country with a parent who informed the State Department they did not plan to return to the United States. SoS Clinton maintain a “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard for issuing a CLN. In other words, Clinton had doubts the 5 year-old would never want to return to the U.S. and live as a U.S. Citizen.

On the other hand, SoS Dean Rusk maintained a lower standard of a preponderance of the evidence for issuing CLNs. A 5 year-old dual citizen who moves out of the U.S. with a parent who informs the State Department they have no intention of returning to the U.S. would be issued a CLN. SoS Vance continued SoS Rusk’s standard of “preponderance of the evidence” and it was upheld by SCOTUS in 1980.

When the minor who has been issued a CLN during their minority chooses to return to the U.S. and recapture their U.S. citizen, the State Department will honor the request within 6 months after reaching the age of majority (18 years-old for Obama, 21 years-old for Steinkauler). Obama moved back to the U.S. in 1971 and chose not to recapture his U.S. citizenship within 6 months of his 18th birthday. The age of majority was 18 during Obama’s lifetime. The age of majority was 21 in Steinkauler’s lifetime. Obama chose to naturalize as a U.S. citizen in 1983 at the age of 22.


260 posted on 02/17/2013 4:34:42 AM PST by SvenMagnussen (TINKER, TAILOR, SOLDIER, SPY)
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