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To: Safetgiver; lentulusgracchus

I interpret it this way...

“I do not consentr to a search of my vehicle, am I free to go?”

At which point the law enforcment officer has to make a decision, arrest, mirand-ize you to place you into custody (which IS lawful, it may not be right, but it is lawful) at which time you are compelled to comply to the arrest, but the non consent to the search is still in effect...

I would pull a fast one and request a phone call to your attorney, which in these days is a must have, no matter what the cost...Most times an attorney looks to make money on the back side of situations like this, and when you find one, keep them handy on speed-dial...

Never utter the words “yes” or “no” in your response to the question of search...I know it seems hard to do, but it is necessary to ensure that the ecording of the encounter cannot be clipped to not include context of your statement in response...This is critical, and needs to be second nature to you and anyone with you, including a spouse or family member/friend(s) in the vehicle with you...

Upon exiting your vehicle, lock the vehicle upon your exit and place the keys in your pocket...Do not concent to a search of your vehicle, and your person...Instruct your passengers to NOT unlock or open the vehicle under any circumstances short of immediate life thratening danger to themselves while in your vehicle...

A law enforcement officer cannot legally gain entry into the vehicle if informed of your refusal without a warrant...So emptying your pockets and finding the keys does not give them authority, without a warrant to enter your vehicle before the warrant is served...

Asking the passengers to unlock and give them entry into the vehicle is also illegal, compelling them to exit the vehiccle is also improper for safety reasons, and still as soon as they exit the vehicle, it should be cleverly, and swiftly locked and doors shut as soon as they exit...

Coordinating a situation like this is difficult, but reasonable in these times...But it is necessary and proper to protect your liberties and freedoms...You may have “nothing to hide” but you have everything to protect, and that had better be honored by law enforcement, or their may be problems in the future...

You need to understand that these ideas are not legal advice, and may still not be applicable to specific state laws, but thy do give an idea that needs to be applied to specific state law and situations and adjusted accordingly...

You may very well have to take the “ride” for refusing, and refusing a search of your vehicle and person is NOT probable cause to seek a warrant, but in some cases where these “safety stops” are frequent in your area, they are prepared for folks like us,and you will have to take the ride for your resistance...

It may very well cause you loss of $$$$$$ to defend yourself, and your attorney needs to understand and be prepared and willing to take this issue all the way up,or not be utilized forthis purpose...I’m sure there are a ton of them out there when you lay the situation out there for them that will be ready to help you when the time comes...You just have to find the right one...

The decision is yours, and yours alone...

Just my opinion...


35 posted on 02/01/2013 2:25:56 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: stevie_d_64; All

By the way, resisting to a point is acceptable, but battling it out on the side of the highway is not the place for it...Be safe and be concerned for the safety of all involved including the officer(s)...

On a side note, I am not surprised, nor am I sorry for the citizens of NY state in this regard...They elected this gaggle, and are now paying for it with their liberties and freedoms...I seriously doubt anything will ever happen to the elected cadre of progressives they put into office in that state...They made that bed, and now they get to enjoy the benefits of that effort...

To those who oppose this agenda by your elected officials, well...Stay where you are, do what is necessary to change the equation, no matter how long it takes...

All of this, once again will take the ultimate “gut-check” by the individual...It is a rhetorical question I have posted for years about this type of situation, and one not requiring a public, personal pontification of your intent on a forum such as this...

“What are YOU prepared to do about it??? And, what are YOU prepared to sacrifice to achieve that goal???”


36 posted on 02/01/2013 2:39:03 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: stevie_d_64
...place you into custody (which IS lawful, it may not be right, but it is lawful) at which time you are compelled to comply to the arrest, but the non consent to the search is still in effect...

Umm, what about "search incident to arrest"? I think they can do that. Just bust you and search you and let you sue 'em if you care, kind of thing.

Lots of cowboys in LE nowadays.

37 posted on 02/01/2013 2:47:09 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: stevie_d_64

As working cop, something similar to this happened. I was stopped in Tennessee for a trumped up left of center something. The cop saw my pistol on my hip which I allowed him to take off me. I explained my reasons for having it (going to Tampa to pick up a murderer), and he looked dubious. He said “you’all want to open up your trunk?” I said “No.” He threw me against the cruiser and handcuffed me. I calmly turned to him and said “Ya’ll want to give me your wallet? Cause I’m gonna have it.” After I was released, my lawyer went after him for reparations of my wages, my time off, my humiliation and a half dozen other reasons, he lost his badge, I won a little bit of money and my lawyer was paid in full and didn’t cost the state of Tenn. a penny. Reason ? REASONABLE search and seizure. His defense? He wouldn’t allow a search of the trunk. He asked ME “You want to open your trunk?” and I just didn’t WANT to.


43 posted on 02/01/2013 3:48:20 AM PST by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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