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To: PapaBear3625; glorgau; freedomson; livius; muawiyah; cripplecreek; Paladin2; KeyLargo; ...

This is scary but we have to recognize that the current situation represents the end game in a century long effort to deconstruct the form of government the founders gave us - our constitutional republic.

The whole point of the constitution is to preserve individual liberty by limiting the scope of government. Almost no Americans today understand that the federal government has no legitimate authority outside of the areas designated to it by the constitution - the “enumerated powers.”

The whole purpose of the progressive agenda is to end all meaningful constitutional limits on government power. In fact, as interpreted by liberals the meaning of “progressive” is “progressing past the outdated and now absurd constitution.”

We need to recognize that we are down to the point of no return in the fight to preserve liberty. If we loose the next couple of years it will be lost for generations, probably forever.

5 posted on 01/20/2013 7:35:51 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers?" - St. Augustine of Hippo)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I think this is one of the things that is most important for our side to learn.

Alinsky Rule 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have".

The left thrives on perception and illusion and we need to force fact to light.
7 posted on 01/20/2013 7:40:01 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Full agreement Mrs. Don-o.
8 posted on 01/20/2013 7:42:40 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

That sums it up.

And it’s also no accident that the favorite “religion” of these people is Islam, which is a theocratic religion that would give the government all power over every aspect of the individual’s life. It was, after all, designed by its founder to reinforce and solidify his secular conquests of neighboring people by taking over every aspect of their lives and making secular law into religious law and vice versa.

That’s the secret behind the attack on the Church: as always, it is the only thing that confronts the State and preserves the sphere of the individual conscience, and therefore it is the only stumbling block for complete government takeover.

The Founders thought they were writing these protections into the Constitution, and it did indeed work for many years. But in a sense, it only worked as long as people had an outside source of morality and ethics and individual identity (which the Founders had assumed they would). Over the last 100 years (particularly accelerated from the 1960s on) we have seen the utilitarian “morality” of the state steadily replacing everything else, and it has been very easy for the enemies of the Constitution to pick off parts of it one at a time.

But now we’re facing an unabashed, full-frontal assault on it and the principles behind it, and they’re not even pretending their objective is anything other than getting rid of this “outdated document” and setting up the Moloch of government in its place.

14 posted on 01/20/2013 7:56:45 AM PST by livius
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To: Mrs. Don-o
We need to recognize that we are down to the point of no return in the fight to preserve liberty. If we loose the next couple of years it will be lost for generations, probably forever.

Call me an optimist,BUT....
I believe in gut instinct. I believe the veil will be lifted on these leftists. I think there's going to be an awaking. Something is going to happen, and the left will finally be exposed for what it is.
Yeah, yeah, we keep hoping for this and it never happens, but this time seems different.

I have no idea what's going to happen, but, ironically, I think it will have more to do with the young people than the old. Even though they've never been taught history, and they've all been indoctrinated into socialism, I think they're going to notice the socialism/communism is not the best thing for them. I think they're going to want what their parents had. They're going to crave "the good old days" of their childhood. They won't be happy living with the lefts perpetual diet of butter flavored lard and stale bread forever. They're going to want to live.

I think people are getting frustrated. Oboma is not only taking away freedoms, he's taking away comforts, too. Socialism/communism can't and will never be able to afford to provide them with what they had before Oboma and his demonic army took it all away from them.

19 posted on 01/20/2013 8:33:15 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

All communists/progressives must Hang!


20 posted on 01/20/2013 8:34:36 AM PST by JDoutrider
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Your first paragraph in your Post #5 is important. You stated: ". . . we have to recognize that the current situation represents the end game in a century long effort to deconstruct the form of government the founders gave us - our constitutional republic."

The so-called "progressive" agenda has, for decades, sought to replace the founding concept of Creator-endowed individual rights, liberty and laws to protect them with their own false concept of imperfect persons in government assuming the role of the "Supreme Being."

The electorate must become educated to these competing ideas and rediscover America's Founding principles, which can enable them to recognize which are true ideas of liberty, and which are counterfeit ideas of tyranny. That is not easy.

In 2008, Michael Ledeen, on another subject altogether, wrote of the degree to which Americans have been "dumbed down" on some basic ideas underlying our freedom:

Ledeen said, "Our educational system has long since banished religion from its texts, and an amazing number of Americans are intellectually unprepared for a discussion in which religion is the central organizing principle."

In the Pope's speech in Germany a few years ago, he observed:

"A reason which is deaf to the divine and which relegates religion into the realm of subcultures is incapable of entering into the dialogue of cultures."

Ledeen put his finger on a problem that stifles meaningful dialogue and debate in America on a number of subjects--as is now exhibited in the discussion on the causes and solutions to acts of violence such as that in Newtown. Censors [disguised as "protectors" (the Radical Left's ACLU, NEA, education bureaucracies, etc., etc.)] have imposed their limited understanding of liberty upon generations of school children.

> From America's founding to the 1950's, ideas derived from religious literature were included in textbooks, through the poetry and prose used to teach children to read and to identify with their world and their country.

Suddenly, those ideas began to disappear from textbooks, until now, faceless, mindless copy editors sit in cubicles in the nation's textbook publishing companies, instructed by their supervisors to remove mere words that refer to family, to the Divine, and to any of the ancient ideas that have sustained intelligent discourse for centuries.

Now, it is the ACLU which accuses middle Americans of "censorship" if they object to books, films, etc., that offend their sensibilities and undermine the character training of their young. Sadly, many of those books and films are themselves products of the minds that have been robbed of exposure to wisdom literature in the nation's schools and universities.

Back in 1876, a Black Minister and Ohio State Legislator, Rev. Benjamin W. Arnett, delivered the "Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon," celebrating the Declaration of Independence, at St. Paul A.M.E. Church in Urbana, Ohio. The Sermon can be read online at the American Memory Section of the LOC, in the African-American Collection. Below is a small excerpt from that Sermon's conclusion. In it Rev. Arnett warned about a movement among "liberals" to remove the ideas underlying America's founding documents. See if you don't recognize those ideas from what you have observed in recent years:

"The Danger to our Country.

"Now that our national glory and grandeur is principally derived from the position the fathers took on the great questions of right and wrong, and the career of this nation has been unparalleled in the history of the past, now there are those who are demanding the tearing down the strength of our national fabric. They may not intend to tear it down, but just as sure as they have their way, just that sure will they undermine our superstructure and cause the greatest calamity of the age. What are the demands of this party of men? Just look at it and examine it for yourselves, and see if you are willing that they shall have their way; or will you still assist in keeping the ship of state in the hands of the same crew and run her by the old gospel chart! But ye men who think there is no danger listen to the demands of the Liberals as they choose to call themselves:

"'Organize! Liberals of America! The hour for action has arrived. The cause of freedom calls upon us to combine our strength, our zeal, our efforts. These are The Demands of Liberalism:

"'1. We demand that churches and other ecclesiastical property shall no longer be exempt from just taxation.

"'2. We demand that the employment of chaplains in Congress, in State Legislatures, in the navy and militia, and in prisons, asylums, and all other institutions supported by public money, shall be discontinued.

"'3. We demand that all public appropriations for sectarian educational and charitable institutions shall cease.

"'4. We demand that all religious services now sustained by the government shall be abolished; and especially that the use of the Bible in the public schools, whether ostensibly as a text-book or avowedly as a book of religious worship, shall be prohibited.

"'5. We demand that the appointment, by the President of the United States or by the Governors of the various States, of all religious festivals and fasts shall wholly cease.

"'6. We demand that the judicial oath in the courts and in all other departments of the government shall be abolished, and that simple affirmation under the pains and penalties of perjury shall be established in its stead.

"'7. We demand that all laws directly or indirectly enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath shall be repealed.

"'8. We demand that all laws looking to the enforcement of “Christian” morality shall be abrogated, and that all laws shall be conformed to the requirements of natural morality, equal rights, and impartial liberty.

"'9. We demand that not only in the Constitution of the United States and of the several States, but also in the practical administration of the same, no privilege or advantage shall be conceded to Christianity or any other special religion; that our entire political system shall be founded and administered on a purely secular basis; and that whatever changes shall prove necessary to this end shall be consistently, unflinchingly, and promptly made.'

"'Let us boldly and with high purpose meet the duty of the hour.'

"Now we must not think that we have nothing to do in this great work, for the men who are at the head of this movement are men of culture and intelligence, and many of them are men of influence. They are led by that thinker and scholar, F. E. Abbott, than whom I know but few men who has a smoother pen, or who is his equal on the battle-field of thought. He says in an address on the duty of his leagues:

"'My answer may be a negative one to all who see nothing positive in the idea of liberty. The conviction I refer to is this: that, regarded as a theological system, Christianity is Superstition, and, regarded as an organized institution, Christianity is Slavery. The purpose I refer to is this: that, whether regarded as theological system, Christianity shall wholly cease to exercise influence in political matters. Although the national Constitution is strictly secular and non-Christian, there are many things in the practical administration of the government which violate its spirit, and constitute a virtual recognition of Christianity as the national religion. These violations are very dangerous; they are on the increase; they more and more give Christianity a practical hold upon the government; they directly tend to strengthen the influence of Christianity over the people, and to fortify it both as a theology and a church; and they are therefore justly viewed with growing indignation by liberals. Not unreasonably are they looked upon as paving the way to a formidable effort to carry the Christian Amendment to the Constitution; and the liberals are beginning to see that they must extinguish the conflagration in its commencement. I believe all this myself, with more intense conviction every day; and therefore I appeal frankly to the people to begin now to lay the foundations of a great National Party of Freedom. It is not a moment too soon. If the liberals are wise, they will see the facts as they are, and act accordingly. Not with hostility, bitterness, defiance, or anger but rather with love to all men and high faith in the beneficence of consistently republican institutions, do I urge them most earnestly to begin the work at once.'

"He acknowledges that this is a religious nation and wants all men to assist him in eliminating the grand old granite principles from the framework of our national union. Will you do it freeman; will we sell the temple reared at the cost of so much precious blood and treasure? These men would have us turn back the hands on the clock of our national progress, and stay the shadow on the dial plate of our christian civilization; they would have us call a retreat to the soldiers in the army of Christ; the banner of the cross they would have us haul down, and reverse the engines of war against sin and crime; the songs of Zion they would turn into discord, and for the harmony and the melody of the sons of God, they would give us general confusion; they would have us chain the forces of virtue and unloose the elements of vice; they would have the nation loose its moorings from the Lord of truth and experience and commit interest, morally, socially; religiously and politically to the unsafe and unreliable human reason; they would discharge God and his crew and run the ship of State by the light of reason, which has always been but a dim taper in the world, and all the foot-prints it has left are marked with the blood of men, women and children. No nation is safe when left alone with reason.

"But we have no notion of giving up the contest without a struggle or a battle. We are aware that there is a great commotion in the world of thought. Religion and science are at arms length contending with all their forces for the mastery. Faith and unbelief are fighting their old battles over again, everything that can be shaken is shaking. The foundations of belief are assaulted by the army of science and men are changing their opinions. New and starting theories are promulgated to the world; old truths are putting on new garbs. Error is dressing in the latest style, wrong is secured by the unholy alliances, changes in men and things, revolution in church and state, Empires are crumbling, Kingdoms tottering; everywhere the change is seen. In the social circle, in the school house, in the pulpit and in the pews. But amid all the changes are revolutions their are some things that are unchangeable, unmovable and enduring. The forces that underline the vital power of Christianity are the same yesterday, to-day, to-morrow and forever more. They are like their God, who is omnipotent, immovable and eternal, and everywhere truth has marched it has left its moccasin tracks."

So said Rev. Benjamin Arnett in 1876. Where is the leader who will declare these things today? His theme was "Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, but Sin is a Reproach to Any People." Might such outspoken thoughts not enlighten the minds of Americans today as they discuss the topic of this thread? To read the full text of Arnett's remarkable history of nations and of the American Republic and its founding ideas, visit here, search by author and title of "Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon."

26 posted on 01/20/2013 9:30:38 AM PST by loveliberty2 ( -)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You are correct about the “end game” being played out. As an unapologetic optimist I see a few obstacles to the progressive victory tho. Not saying it’s going to be easy but you need only look to Greece to see how it’s going to play out. The busy body progressive crowd is banding together because they must. They know their krap doesn’t work but they keep hoping. Two huge factors are coming into play. As in Greece they are running out of other peoples money and gov’t is eating itself alive. Then there is modernization of production which will go on with or without them but it’s making unions and their friends obsolete. THEY are the ones gradually becoming second class citizens. The US gov’t hasn’t run out of money yet but the writing is on the wall. TurbotaxTimmy quit paying interest to municipal/state US bond holders and just last week started borrowing from the Fed Employee retirement fund. When they confiscate 401K accounts you’ll know they are out of money, out of gas, and it will be over except the whining.

37 posted on 01/20/2013 11:54:29 AM PST by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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