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India to Western Tech Firms: If You Want To Sell It Here, Build It Here
Wall Street Journal ^ | 01/08/2013 | AMOL SHARMA

Posted on 01/08/2013 7:11:11 AM PST by SeekAndFind

NEW DELHI—India has proposed sweeping curbs on the import of technology products ranging from laptops to Wi-Fi devices to computer-network equipment.

The proposed regulations, which were reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, would create an expansive "Buy India" mandate requiring a large percentage of the high-tech goods sold in the country to be manufactured locally.

If implemented, the rules could wreak havoc on the business plans of a wide range of U.S. and other foreign firms, including hardware-makers Cisco Systems Inc. CSCO and Dell DELL Inc.; services companies such as International Business Machines IBM Corp.; and telecom-gear suppliers such as Nokia Siemens Networks B.V. and Telefon AB L.M. Ericsson.

To comply with the rules, foreign companies would have to set up factories in India quickly—possibly as soon as April—or significantly expand their existing manufacturing capacity in a country where the infrastructure is poor and building plants can take years because of red tape and other hassles.

Or they could face the loss of current business—collectively the industries affected generate billions of dollars in sales here annually—and the chance to tap into what is expected to be a booming technology market in years to come. Spending in India's technology and electronics market is expected to reach about $400 billion by 2020, up from $45 billion in 2009.

The rules are in draft form, and their sweep may reflect some brinkmanship on the part of the Indian government, which wants foreign firms to increase manufacturing in India. The government could still choose to delay or scale back its plan.

Still, U.S. lobbyists and industry are strenuously opposing the proposals, which have quickly become the most serious point of tension in commercial relations between the two countries. The proposals also aren't the U.S. government's only concern.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: business; economy; fairtrade; freetrade; india; technology

1 posted on 01/08/2013 7:11:16 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Sounds like its time to reduce the numbers of tech visas to the US and bring home some of those outsourced call center jobs.


2 posted on 01/08/2013 7:16:35 AM PST by skeeter
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To: SeekAndFind

How ‘bout:

“Wester Tech Firms to India: If You Want To Build It There, Invent It There”

Oh wait, nevermind...They can’t invent it there. Simply lacking the ability.

Another captive market for the Western industrial giants. *shrug*


3 posted on 01/08/2013 7:16:53 AM PST by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: skeeter

RE: bring home some of those outsourced call center jobs

The Philippines is now overtaking India as the call center capital of the world.


4 posted on 01/08/2013 7:18:50 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: skeeter

I saw this in the 80’s when I was in college in computer science and was dismissed by many when I said we are basically giving away our edge by allowing foreigners en masse to come here and go to school and then watch them go home taking our tech with them. They work just long enough to get some experience and leave, unless they get hooked on our lifestyle, then instead they just ship our knowledge home. Didn’t help that BJ Bill gave away loads to the ChiComs with no ramifications to him.

I also said that we are stupid to believe that a pure global economy will benefit the US because other countries don’t play by our rules. I was called a protectionist.

As a side note I can say that most software written in India had to be refactored once it came home because it sucked.


5 posted on 01/08/2013 7:29:15 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: SeekAndFind

Chickens coming home to roost.

Just wait till China gets in on this game.

He was 20 years ahead of his time, but Ross Perot was exactly right on this globalization nonsense and that sucking sound of jobs leaving America.


6 posted on 01/08/2013 7:33:24 AM PST by oldbill
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To: SeekAndFind

This is the dumbest policy proposal I heard about in a long time. Talk about committing suicide. Why would India want to starve the country of cutting edge technologies? Idiotic.


7 posted on 01/08/2013 7:33:29 AM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: Resolute Conservative
I also said that we are stupid to believe that a pure global economy will benefit the US because other countries don’t play by our rules.

All the talk of globalism was a load, the economic equivelent of Fukuyama's 'end of history' crap. It was always about the next quarter's dividend with no thought to what might result ten years down the road.

8 posted on 01/08/2013 7:37:43 AM PST by skeeter
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To: indianrightwinger

I guess we’ll see. But if it works for India (i.e., manufacturers comply and build it there), then the U.S. should do the same.


9 posted on 01/08/2013 7:38:04 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Wolfie

India has always been thus.


10 posted on 01/08/2013 8:11:45 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (In the game of life, there are no betting limits)
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To: SeekAndFind
We can force it by just demanding to speak to someone in the US. I do it all the time, it makes them mad but not as mad as it makes me to get someone who doesn't understand what I'm saying and I don't understand what they are saying.
11 posted on 01/08/2013 8:21:23 AM PST by pepperdog ( I still get a thrill up my leg when spell check doesn't recognize the name/word Obama!)
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To: Wolfie

RE: But if it works for India

What does “works” mean in economic terms?

Will it make them more prosperous?

Will it encourage more foreign companies to set up shop in India, or will it scare them away?

What are the cost/benefits of such a policy?

That is what I want to know when it comes to using the word “works”.


12 posted on 01/08/2013 8:39:29 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

All of those things, yes. It makes for a nice economic experiment.


13 posted on 01/08/2013 8:48:43 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: oldbill
He was 20 years ahead of his time, but Ross Perot was exactly right on this globalization nonsense and that sucking sound of jobs leaving America.

When he was running, he displayed a telling photograph of a Ford plant in Mexico. He asked, "What's wrong with this picture?" and to this day, I am embarrassed to say I didn't see it until he pointed out the glaringly obvious: "There is no parking lot. Unlike Americans, the workers can't afford the product they build. They are bussed in from the neighboring barrios."

We're pretty close to that now for what remains.

14 posted on 01/08/2013 10:19:29 AM PST by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: SeekAndFind

India’s biggest problem is not talent or enough willing hard workers. India’s biggest problem is it’s infrastructure as regards both transportation and energy.

Political moves to bring more “federalism” into Indian governance could help break some of the infrastructure bottlenecks.

If India focused more political energy on that than it seems willing to put into protectist measures it would find less popular incentive for those protectionist measures as more foreign firms WILLINGLY chose to make investments in India and more Indians became employees of those firms.


15 posted on 01/08/2013 11:48:16 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Wolfie

It won’t work. If the country was a good place to manufacture, it would already be happening. Same way, if US was a good labor market, then labor would be forming here. Artificially forcing the issue by mandates is just going to be disaster.


16 posted on 01/09/2013 11:51:33 AM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: Oatka
We're pretty close to that now for what remains.

Yeah, but many people here think that's a GOOD thing.

17 posted on 01/09/2013 12:01:51 PM PST by Wolfie
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To: SeekAndFind

China has the same policy. That’s why I lost my previous job last year.


18 posted on 01/09/2013 12:05:13 PM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/?)
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To: indianrightwinger
I think its more aimed at China then US. India isnt asking for the relocation of the research and development but the cheaper manufacturing. Most of the electronic and telecom lower end manufacturing happens in China, not US. India is already losing out to China in hardware manufacturing. This move isn't going to add any greater damage. So what are those companies going to do? Not sell their stuff anymore? Give up on a giant technology market like India? Highly doubtful. If not them, then their competitors will open their shop in India. Someone will fill the gap.
19 posted on 01/09/2013 5:55:50 PM PST by ravager (I)
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To: Wuli
“willing to put into protectist measures it would find less popular incentive for those protectionist measures”

Its not so much of a protectionist measure. There is no “domestic industry” that they are trying to protect here. Its just a condition that if you want access to Indian market then you must also create some manufacturing jobs there. China had the exact same policy for years. No one talks about but look where they are today.

20 posted on 01/09/2013 6:11:49 PM PST by ravager (I)
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To: indianrightwinger

China had similar kind of policies for years. China has enormous economic leverage to set terms in their favor and US companies would generally agree to those terms to gain access to the world largest market. If China wanted to apply restrictions on the internet Google and Microsoft would bend over backwards to comply. Question is does India have that kind of leverage just yet.


21 posted on 01/09/2013 6:25:20 PM PST by ravager (I)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks SeekAndFind.

Hey, if urinalists want to publish something that’s socially important, we all need to see a list of allegedly US-based companies who outsourced all their service, support, and programming jobs.


22 posted on 01/09/2013 7:16:47 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Fake answers for people who don't ask enough questions.)
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To: oldbill

Bring American jobs back.

Now.

(China’s been in on this game for 20 years now)

Who do you suppose it’s modeled after?


23 posted on 01/09/2013 7:20:12 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: SunkenCiv

That would just be a long list of every single American company still in business. If they haven’t already outsourced their services they would most definitely have guest works and temps.


24 posted on 01/09/2013 9:10:20 PM PST by ravager (I)
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To: ravager

O.K. I grant you that the Indian proposal was no more “protectionist” than China’s incentives to foreign companies, ON THE SURFACE.

However,

on the positive side, for China, they did more in terms of infrastructive than India has managed to do;

but, on the negative side, China not only sought foreign firms to manufacture in China if they wanted product placement in China, they quite often (a) REQUIRED, MANDATED those deals to include “partnerships” with local Chinese companies, very frequently companies part-owned by a unit of the Chinese government, and (b) many of them resulted in technology transfers to the Chinese partner and many of them, (c) once they had enough technology and education from the foreign partner went into competition with the foreign partner;

those measures by China - (a), (b) and (c) were long-term “protectionist” measures.

GM itself might be chuckling at it’s success today in China but it will one day rue the day it ever believed it would last.

China’s “capitalism” is fascistic state-Capitalism and it has no intention of foreign firms success lasting longer than their usefulness to helping build their Chinese competitors.

India can adopt a different model of attractiing foreign manufacturers and do so without the long term negatives in the Chinese method, but first it needs to do as well as China in what any manufacturers need - good infrastructure in energy and transportation.


25 posted on 01/10/2013 12:19:00 PM PST by Wuli
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To: Wuli
” they did more in terms of infrastructive than India has managed to do;”

Bureaucratic tardiness aside, China has FAR more financial resources then India, #1 for having been the early bird on economic reforms and #2 because of political and economic patronage and support for the US. That doesn’t mean India hasn’t doesn’t any improvement in infrastructure.

India infrastructure development has actually seen some phenomenal growth. It only pales when compared to China. A good way to measure India’s infrastructure growth is to compare it to Pakistan, both countries started at same point. While China has the ability to throw enormous amounts of money at a problem. India never had that luxury, India is more judicious, resourceful and creative in solving basic infrastructure problems. While growth in China is entirely government driven activity, India is far more entrepreneurial.

It is true that many part of India still lack basic hygiene, water supply, electricity. etc, how ever there are also parts of India that have faster broadband then even the US. While the condition of the roads are still bad, the growth in civil aviation is likely to the among the biggest in the world.

As for your (a) (b) and (c), every single country in the world has tried to extract and benefit from the scientific and technological knowledge and experience gained by other countries....on way or another. Even the US has done that at the beginning of last century. Steam engines and rocket technology weren’t invented in the US. You are simply trying to broaden the definition of “protectionism”.

What you forget about GM is that, its a non-state entity. If it is making profits, what does it care about where it is located geographically, whether US, China or India? Anyways most of GM’s profits comes from Asia, it might as well become a Chinese company. And competition will always be there from somewhere. A lot of American companies will eventually either end up becoming practically Chinese companies or will be bought out by Chinese companies. It would actually be much easier for the Chinese to buy off an entire US company lock stock and barrel then to slowly nibble away at bits and pieces of US technology.

As for the long “term negatives of China”, I haven’t quite see anything of that sort yet. Although India might want to avoid the long term negatives of US and Europe, we ARE seeing that right now. Yes India does need good infrastructure. And some tactful measure by the government such as the one mention in the article above might not be such a bad idea. One just needs to study its effects more closely and weight the pros and cons.

26 posted on 01/11/2013 1:36:39 AM PST by ravager (I)
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To: ravager

“As for your (a) (b) and (c), every single country in the world has tried to extract and benefit from the scientific and technological knowledge and experience gained by other countries....on way or another. Even the US has done that at the beginning of last century. Steam engines and rocket technology weren’t invented in the US.”

There are cummunist-planned-economy and Asian-mercantilist-economy models behind, and at work with (a), (b) and (c) in China that were not part of how and why foreign technology spread and technology transfers occurred in the early U.S. industrial build-up. Most U.S. “protectionism” depended on the tarriff but foreign investment here was not otherwise discouraged nor directed by government nor managed by politically directed government run enterprises, industrial or financial.


27 posted on 01/11/2013 12:20:10 PM PST by Wuli
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To: ravager

“What you forget about GM is that, its a non-state entity. If it is making profits, what does it care about where it is located geographically, whether US, China or India?”

What you forget is the GM subsidary in China is not a totally “private” free enterprise entity. It was required to bring certain politically connected (party members) onto the board of the subsidary and it was required to establish a partnership between that subsidary and a wholly state-owned fledgling vehicle manufacturer and it was required to provide certain technolgy transfers to that state-owned company, including technology involved in production. That partner is still smaller than but growing faster than GM in China and it will one day leave the partnership with GM and eat GM alive in China. That is not by any free-enterprise-capitalist natural process; it is by state design.

That is the “long term negative” for western firms doing business today in China - they are being suckered.


28 posted on 01/11/2013 12:31:25 PM PST by Wuli
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