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Germany, for Decades a Pacifist Power, Faces the Need to Play a Military Role
New York Times ^ | January 5, 2013 | NICHOLAS KULISH

Posted on 01/05/2013 11:24:09 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper

When Chancellor Angela Merkel hosted a recent reception for military families, she greeted parents, wives and children whose loved ones were spending their holidays in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Kosovo and off the Horn of Africa. German deployments overseas, Ms. Merkel said, “will soon encompass the entire globe.”

On that same wintry afternoon, members of Parliament debated whether to add to the nearly 6,000 German troops currently serving abroad by sending up to 400 soldiers to Turkey, where they would operate two Patriot missile batteries to help protect their NATO ally from a potential escalation of the civil war across the border in Syria.

“For decades, we Germans have benefited from the fact that our partners gave us the feeling of reliable security,” Thomas de Maizière, Germany’s defense minister, said during the debate last month. “Now we are in a position and have the duty, even, to make our impact felt.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 01/05/2013 11:24:15 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Germany needs to make a priority of ridding itself of Islamic inluences.


2 posted on 01/05/2013 11:27:38 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Nazi Eurabia needs to be out there and protect muslims.

Nothing new.


3 posted on 01/05/2013 11:27:59 AM PST by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Vendetta))
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Morgen die ganze Welt...


4 posted on 01/05/2013 11:27:59 AM PST by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved, or not at all)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
First German Artillery in Afghanistan
5 posted on 01/05/2013 11:29:25 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Economic oppression of Germany due to the Treaty of Versailles is what gave rise to Hitler and the Third Reich.

What horror will the economic oppression of Germany by the European Union give rise to?

6 posted on 01/05/2013 11:30:40 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("More law, less justice." --Cicero)
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To: Jim Noble

Ja. This is far more of a want than a need.


7 posted on 01/05/2013 12:16:31 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

About Time Germany stepped up to the plate and started to use its military power. For too long the US and UK have been the policemen of the world. We need to let others have a hand. Same goes for Russia, France and Japan.


8 posted on 01/05/2013 12:20:53 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

No, this is not something you would want, in any of the cases you cited. The US and UK have been about keeping the peace. Such powers as they would prefer war and conquest, and they are not our friends (never mind having influenced our own society negatively).


9 posted on 01/05/2013 12:25:18 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Are you saying Germany, France, Russia and Japan want war and conquest?


10 posted on 01/05/2013 12:31:43 PM PST by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

What exactly is a pacifist power?


11 posted on 01/05/2013 12:32:02 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: Fiji Hill

Do you regard the phrases “would prefer” and “want” to be synonymous? I know what I said.


12 posted on 01/05/2013 12:34:19 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: The_Media_never_lie
It’s an empire that is as pacifist as the USSR was freedom-loving.

Even George Washington knew that there could be no such thing as a pacifist foreign policy.
Among the many interesting objects which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defense will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end, a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military supplies.
Feigning pacifism, therefore, is a remarkable sign of belligerence.
13 posted on 01/05/2013 12:39:09 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
they are not our friends
Hate to burst your bubble...
German Americans (German: Deutschamerikaner) are citizens of the United States of German ancestry. They comprise about 50 million people,[1] making them the largest ancestry group ahead of Irish Americans, African Americans and English Americans.
14 posted on 01/05/2013 12:40:11 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The Fourth Reich?


15 posted on 01/05/2013 12:40:27 PM PST by EEGator
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

History ALWAYS repeats. And inviting it with Germany is a REALLY freaking bad idea for Europe. Or anyone else.

I do not see a resurgent NAZI Rich (thank God). But there will be hell to pay. And it will be bloody.

Same can be said for China and Japan. They aren’t sudden pacifists, though they may look it.


16 posted on 01/05/2013 12:43:19 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Olog-hai

Sounds like feigning pacifism is a pretty effective strategy to get another power to pay for their defense.


17 posted on 01/05/2013 12:50:21 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

We’ve had “Deutschamerikaner” for two world wars, just like we have had people descended from other nations whose countries of origin have been our enemy during those wars. Deutschamerikaner in large numbers even date back to Benjamin Franklin’s time; the man once thought that Pennsylvania was going to consist of a German-speaking majority, hence his creation of the Philadelphische Zeitung at one time. Obviously I was not talking about them.

BTW, citing Wikipedia will get one into trouble, never mind the US Census Bureau (who has been responsible for the redistricting that pushed conservatives out of the House and Senate).


18 posted on 01/05/2013 12:51:24 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

OK, so are you saying Germany, France, Russia and Japan would prefer war and conquest?


19 posted on 01/05/2013 12:52:04 PM PST by Fiji Hill (Io Triumphe!)
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To: The_Media_never_lie

It’s worked since the beginning of the Cold War.


20 posted on 01/05/2013 12:52:24 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Berlin_Freeper
“For decades, we Germans have benefited from the fact that our partners gave us the feeling of reliable security,” Thomas de Maizière, Germany’s defense minister

Wow. An honest European. (For "our partners" insert "the United States.")

21 posted on 01/05/2013 12:53:55 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Olog-hai
Like Americans didn't shoot their tyrannical British friends out of America?

You are obviously in denial. LoL!

1608 - Several Germans were among the settlers at Jamestown.

22 posted on 01/05/2013 12:58:10 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You keep citing meaningless links related to Americans rather than Germans.

Besides, back during the world wars, there were German Americans that fought for the USA, and others that went back to Germany to fight on their side. Also meaningless.


23 posted on 01/05/2013 1:02:11 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Sorry I damaged your psyche with information you’re not able to handle.

You can go back to your bubble now.


24 posted on 01/05/2013 1:07:01 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper
I’m equally sorry that you are exhibiting liberal-like behavior. I didn’t deny whatever factual stuff you brought up; I do not see the relevance to the Bundesrepublik’s foreign policy, nor has same been demonstrated.

BTW, did you happen to read this, dating back to last month?
As lively as these debates are, they have also been repeated ad nauseum. Why all this constant rehashing of Hitler and the past, some ask? But it’s really about the present. Hitler isn’t the problem. The problem is our society.

The scandal isn’t that Nadja Drygalla was part of the German rowing team. The scandal is that young Germans in the 21st century feel the need to be neo-Nazis. The scandal is that neo-Nazis now dominate a neighborhood in the Ruhr region, a region that, ironically enough, was long proud of its capacity to integrate different ethnic groups. The scandal is that for years a terrorist group was able to pass undetected as it shot and killed people from immigrant communities, and that some public servants couldn’t or wouldn’t see what monstrosities were taking place in Germany.

Does it happen elsewhere? Of course it does. Other countries, like Hungary, the Netherlands, France and Denmark, even have radical right-wing parties represented in their national parliaments. Does that mean it isn’t really all that bad in Germany? No, it is. Even after almost 70 years, it does make a difference whether an act of xenophobia happens in Germany or in Spain. We remain a special case, because Hitler is one of us. …
There is also this, from back in May of last year.
A large majority of Germans (59%) view Israel as “aggressive” and think Germany no longer has a special obligation to the Jewish nation, according to an opinion poll released Wednesday ahead of a state visit by Germany’s president. …

Seventy percent said they believed Israel pursued its interests without consideration for other nations, Stern said in a pre-release of its Thursday edition, up 11 percentage points from three years ago. …

25 posted on 01/05/2013 1:31:33 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
I quoted and responded to your oddball statement: "they are not our friends"

You, in turn, have failed to substantiate what you posted.

All you have to play is the Nazi card, just like a sick minded liberal who plays the Race card.

As if we don't constantly see the BBC attacking Israel and siding with Palestinians.


Here is link about Jewish people... Now you can post the UK is not the friend of America.

As a Brit, I am ashamed of what is happening in my country.
How long before British universities do something about the safety of their Jewish students? A new survey reveals that Jewish students at one of Britain’s top institutions face a “toxic atmosphere” in which they are forced to hide their identity.

BTW, you are not an American, are you?
You have no State flag. Nor an About Me page with even a single American ideal and you display a hysterical antagonism against Germany that can only be the product of the Hitler infatuated British press.

26 posted on 01/05/2013 2:10:19 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You are clearly overreacting. As well as underreacting to the state of affairs at federal level in Berlin. Your (dare I say) genuinely hysterical defense of Germany at the expense of the USA bears more than some scrutiny now, as well as the consistent attempts at deflection by pointing at the UK, who had a hand in the creation of the state of Israel.

As far as the BBC goes, they are consistent in their anti-UK stance, as well as their anti-Israel stance; the former even dates back to the 1930s. They have for a long time been influenced by overseas and leftist concerns. But do they represent the conservative view in the UK, any more than the Democratic party represents a US conservative view? That’s the real question.

I don’t recall if I asked you your views on the social market economy. I might have. When its proponents attack the USA unjustly over its free market model, then I take umbrage. If you join me in such umbrage, then I’m well pleased by that.

But I advise you to take a closer look at the foreign policy out of Berlin as well as Brussels, because they are always in sync.


27 posted on 01/05/2013 2:22:10 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

No over-reaction. Just exposing you man.


28 posted on 01/05/2013 2:29:15 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; Berlin_Freeper; Norm Lenhart
E. Pluribus Unum: "Economic oppression of Germany due to the Treaty of Versailles is what gave rise to Hitler and the Third Reich."

That is a myth -- propaganda -- fostered by the Nazis themselves, but in fact Germany prospered during the 1920s and Nazis got only 3% of the vote in 1924 and 1928.
In 1929 the Great Depression hit and Nazi vote rose to 18% in September 1930, then 30%, 37% & back to 33% in three 1932 elections.
Finally in January 1933, just as Nazi popularity began to fade, President Hindenburg appointed Hitler chancellor, the Reichstag fire gave him unlimited power, and in Germany's last relatively free election, March 1933, Nazis received 44% of German votes.

Point is, the Great Depression drove Hitler's rise to power, not Versailles, and even then, Nazis never received a majority of German votes.

And the truth of Versailles is that its terms were not so harsh as has been said -- less harsh than terms Germany itself imposed on, for examples, defeated Belgium and Russia.
Rather, the lesson of history is that, in times of economic downturn, voters often turn to unscrupulous charismatic leaders who promise to end their problems with radical actions.

Of course, nothing like that has ever happened here, ahem, right? Right?

;-)

29 posted on 01/05/2013 2:33:46 PM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

bump!!


30 posted on 01/05/2013 2:39:37 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: BroJoeK

Such as with most things, probably to varying degrees.


31 posted on 01/05/2013 2:40:48 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I think you are exposing yourself more than you think you’re exposing me. That, though, was not because of me.


32 posted on 01/05/2013 2:56:02 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: BroJoeK

Not a bad summary.


33 posted on 01/05/2013 2:59:47 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Thank you for your UK-centric opinion on a Conservative American forum.

Enter a Germany thread I post again with the garbage “they are not our friends”, and I will spank you again.

Have a nice evening.


34 posted on 01/05/2013 3:05:20 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

They are not our friends—certainly not at the federal level.

And dare I say your antipathy towards the UK is too reminiscent of one Barack Hussein Obama. Furthermore, your silence on the social market economy is deafening.


35 posted on 01/05/2013 3:09:33 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Berlin_Freeper

The Germans are either at your feet or at your throat. Churchill.


36 posted on 01/05/2013 3:11:01 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Olog-hai

Germany is friends with America just like the UK and I never said UK wasn’t.

I already posted about economies with you several times in the recent past.

Too bad you need a do-over.


37 posted on 01/05/2013 3:17:53 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: allmendream

Churchill: “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they’ve tried everything else.”


38 posted on 01/05/2013 3:26:18 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Berlin_Freeper

“Everything, even lunacy, is mass produced here. But everything soon goes out of fashion.” Einstein

“The American way, take a good thing and over do it.” My father


39 posted on 01/05/2013 3:33:15 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: BroJoeK
Of course, nothing like that has ever happened here, ahem, right? Right?

You had me going there for a moment.

40 posted on 01/05/2013 4:32:29 PM PST by Sarajevo (Don't think for a minute that this excuse for a President has America's best interest in mind.)
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To: Olog-hai; Berlin_Freeper
Berlin_Freeper: "Enter a Germany thread I post again with the garbage 'they are not our friends', and I will spank you again."

Olog-hai: "They are not our friends—certainly not at the federal level."

I'd be curious to learn what evidence of German "unfriendliness" anyone might cite.
I've certainly never seen it, in over 55 years since the first time I lived there as a boy.

Of course, I can't speak for all 82 million Germans, but I never met an "unfriendly" German, even including the old gentleman who took perverse pride in showing me his pocket-full of Nazi coins.
He had the air of one of our own "unreconstructed rebels", and I felt no more threatened by him than I would by most of them.

The fact is, US military forces remain in Germany, now 69 years later only because they want us.
If Germans, like the French in 1964, ever said "go", we'd be gone, but they don't, because they like us, or at least, they like having us there.
And it's a one-time decision -- once we're gone, we'd be most unlikely to ever return, short of God-knows-what.

So, if there's any "unfriendliness", my guess is it most likely starts with our own doofus government, which may have little understanding and no sympathy for historical circumstances, and may prioritize pushing the "re-set" button with Russia over maintaining good relations with one of our strongest allies.

Yes, I admit, my direct knowledge of Germany and Germans is now, ahem, several years out of date, but I don't imagine the world has changed all that much recently, that anyone would contemplate moving Germany from the "friendly ally" list on to some other, less attractive category.

41 posted on 01/06/2013 4:28:29 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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