Posted on 12/29/2012 8:49:01 AM PST by Para-Ord.45
The word among some Senate Republicans is that a fiscal cliff deal is likely to be struck by Sunday, or Monday at the latest...
If such a deal is made, it would mean that many Republicans would be backing off their longstanding position against raising taxes on anyone, including top earners...
So a deal will most likely be done. But the bottom line is that the fiscal cliff fight will not end happily for Republicans. They will have given in on what was an article of faith — that taxes should not be raised on anybody, poor or rich — in return for essentially nothing.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...
Give him all the tax hikes he wants ,, deny any cuts .. in taxes or spending,, do it by simply taking a 4 year vacation ,, not one repub in the house to vote on anything ,, not even where to go out to lunch! .. get on TV daily while the whole thing crashes and burns and explain why it’s crashing,, sure the repubs will be ridiculed .. I don’t care. The repubs don’t represent me ,, haven’t since 1994.
Need to face reality here. Keeping tax rates low for perceived rich people is a loser politically. Hate to say it, but sometimes standing on principle is just flat out stupid and this is one of those times.
Rok,
I have to agree. Within the last week or so I have come to the conclusion that ultimately, there has to be true compromise on this. The thing is, the GOP has already agreed to some tax hikes, and Obama hasn’t accepted it, so they aren’t compromising over at the WH.
At this point, I am more concerned at the huge tax increase I will face in a few days....after just getting diagnosed with testicular cancer of all things...than whether the rich keep their money or not.
Yes, I ultimately believe that raising taxes on the rich is bad as it can impact hiring. That said, I don’t think it would have a huge impact....people didn’t struggle to find jobs in the 1990s boom. But, you know what, the voters voted for this again knowing both sides would still have power, thus making the fiscal cliff yet another fight.
Frankly, I’m sick of the fights every few months. It’s time for something real to be done on our debt, but of course that won’t happen since Obama isn’t up to the challenge (truly a weak president) and the GOP doesn’t have the will.
At this point, I say raise the rates on people making $1 million or more....that might spare at least some of the small business people compared to the 250k.
It wouldn't take "many" Republicans, since there are 193 'rats, and 6 Republicans who didn't sign the tax pledge. And then there's Boehner. But the Republicans don't even need to go that far, they just need to pass a bill that exempts the lower income brackets from the tax increase. The Reps should want to distance themselves from the coming tax increase. The Obamacare taxes, the likely cutbacks in hours b/c of the 30 hour Obamacare threshold, the increase in payroll & self-employment tax, the increase in Social Security payroll tax, the increase in the Medicare tax, and the increase in health insurance premiums should see paychecks shrink in January no matter what they do.
Just abolish it. Figure out a different way to run the government.
BTW, most of the debate on what might or might not happen to the Republican party as a result of Obama's ineptitude is based on two false premises ~ (1) that the voters have no idea Obamugabe is a Democrat, and (2) George Bush is still President.
Obama lost 11% of his 2008 vote ~ and I daresay that was maybe as much as 19% of the black Democrat vote. That's not good. That's at least 6X as many black votes as Republicans have gotten in recent years (note, these guys just walked away ~ didn't vote for a Republican but it shows some serious fractures in the 'self identified as black' faction in the Democrat party coalition.)
Which means black voters aren't as stupid as they want you to believe them to be.
Obama's proposal or taxes will wipe out all the rich black people in America! Jet magazine will notice that.
“I don’t think it would have a huge impact...”
Economics aside the political impact will be devastating to the RINO GOP for they have admitted tax cuts do not work and only spending,borrowing and tax increases do.
THAT is what obama/soetoro wanted, admission of political and philosophical defeat as he has stated over and over, “ We tried it their way, it doesn`t work.”
NOW he has the admission, the proof to use in every speech. He`ll hold up the piece of paper and say, “ There ya go, they know tax cuts don`t work either. THEY agree with ME.”
Think the dominant media will disagree or blame obama/soetoro is things go wrong?
It`s a massive political victory over the RINO GOP
“Give him all the tax hikes he wants”
With due respect - Stupid idea. “do it by simply taking a 4 year vacation” throws away political power and gives the Dems a monopoly, a disgrace to all who Republicans and anyone who cares about our country.
We are stuck between two bad ideas. “blow it up” and lose or “throw in the towel” and lose.
there is only one smart way - the Pyrric Victory way. The President will get his victory. He has to. The President + the Democrat Senate plus the media mean that they can set certain terms and win the PR war.So the GOP will in the end have to give something and show Obama ‘won’ on the top tax rates. BUT ... the key is to extract the maximum amount of political advantage from it.
Let him have his rates on the rich, but for a price. Protect the maximum number of taxpayers and cut the most spending possible. That’s the goal. If a deal raises taxes on above $500k income only, and cuts spending by $2 trillion, its a deal that works.
Clinton won the PR way in the 1995/1996 budget battle, but GOP won on substance. The GOP needs to learn to win via ‘death by thousand cuts’ always demanding small advantages for each thing Obama wants.
What we SHOULD be doing is stop giving bad advice to Republicans and start saying the obvious: IT’S THE SPENDING.
“The repubs don’t represent me ,, haven’t since 1994.”
All the more reason for them not to take your bad advice to give it all to the Democrats.
Need to face reality here. Keeping tax rates low for perceived rich people is a loser politically. Hate to say it, but sometimes standing on principle is just flat out stupid and this is one of those times.
With the kenyan in the WH taxes are going up and there will be no meaningful spending cuts outside of defense. Too ignore that reality is foolish.
Tactically accepting some tax increases is ok as long as it is clear it is the Obama Plan. Of course it is totally insane to raise taxes in a weak economy and it will fail.
The problem is the beltway GOP has done so little to shape the battlefield. They have meekly allowed the dims to lead them from one crisis to the next.
Boehner with his secret talks and McConnell hiding under his desk have been a disaster. The GOP will continue losing to the marxists with those guys running the show.
The rich are the ones who support the GOP Pacs, such as the one
Karl Toyko Roves heads. Most grassroots give their money directly
to candidates.
I would not be surprised to see the rich help “retire” some these Rinos
in 2014. In fact, I can see a coalition developing between The Tea Party
and the rich in retiring a lot of these Rinos. Their motivation for retiring
these Rinos may differ, but will unite to retire a lot of Rinos.
Of course, with Bonehead more than willing to work with Rats to pass
bills, nothing much will change. Onward to the collapse we go.
Republicans should have created a bill which would make the Bush tax cuts permenant across the board and then sent t.o the Senate.
And they should have done it with great fanfare. Let the Senate tell the American people that there will be no permenant tax cut because they want to take money from the middle class.
My opinion, first order of business is to fire the entire staff at the RNC.
The DC Party may start with taxing the rich more, but know this, they will
come for your tax bracket too, eventually, as well.
Just hope he ain't alone in standing on conservative principles no matter what.
The problem with the Bush tax cuts is simple ~ the bill went from the House to the Senate and somebody held out or milk price supports or something or other, and we ended up without enough votes to make it permanent.
Yep
Economics aside the political impact will be devastating to the RINO GOP for they have admitted tax cuts do not work and only spending,borrowing and tax increases do.
So, give the kenyan his pound of flesh and say that. Then hammer him as having no real plan, go nuclear on the senate dims and take over the senate in 2014.
The GOP has got to rebrand itself by triangulating the dims on taxes. Do you think Clinton wanted welfare reform? Of course not but it got the dims another 4 years of power.
The key thing is being aggressive and having everybody on the same message. No freelancing RINOs. All we need to hear is: “There are not enough wealthy to pay for it, where is the money going to come from?”
Eventually as kenyancare breaks hard the dim bulbs will figure out it is coming from them and they will abandon the dims.
The RNC has no decent communicator and the DNC owns nearly all communications so this fact is little known
And if (or more likely, when) this scenario plays out, the Democrats will have effectively severed the Tea Party from the Republican Party, and they will SAIL TO VICTORY in the House in 2014.
...the Republicans are a bunch of IDIOTS for allowing this. They have a very strong hand, but their metrosexual advisers simply won’t tell them that.
"As for spending cuts, particularly in entitlements, some Senate Republicans say they will press for those in January or February, during the coming battle over raising the nation’s debt ceiling. They believe that fight will give them leverage to extract real concessions from the White House and Democrats on spending. It’s not entirely clear why they believe that so strongly; Republicans will certainly take a beating in the press if they appear ready to push the nation toward default to win unpopular cuts"
Here we go again.
start saying the obvious: IT’S THE SPENDING.
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Your ideas are great ,, I can come up with great ideas too ,, the problem is that you’re denying reality ,, we have Boehner... we have nobody to voice our ideas , Obama will win anyway ... we are onboard the Titanic and we’ve split a seam from stem to stern in areas where we can’t reach with mattresses and 4x4’s ... do you want this to be Obama’s economy or do you want our boys to be on TV agreeing to this little part and that little part so that in the end and for all time in the school books our children will read IT’S THE REPUBLICANS FAULT.
The GOP seems to have the same “ideals”/goals as the leftist Commies - they just won’t admit it until the time is ripe to enslave us all.
Good point...had not considered that. It will be used as a club that “now we know tax cuts don’t work” definitely. Nevermind they do....that’s why our deficit dropped and economy grew after all until the housing crisis undid all those gains.
Good point...had not considered that. It will be used as a club that “now we know tax cuts don’t work” definitely. Nevermind they do....that’s why our deficit dropped and economy grew after all until the housing crisis undid all those gains.
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I admire your "never surrender" attitude ... however it's long past the time when you should have realized that banging your head against the wall accomplishes nothing with the pathetic losers we have in the Republican Party ,, but don't worry , let THEM crash and burn , they don't represent us anyway.. and they are powerless (with their current makeup) to stop Obama anyway...
Two years is plenty of time to get a real conservative TEA party agenda vocalized and represented in the next midterms...they've already had a good start in 2010 and 2012..
Anyone paying attention knows that the end justifies the means. The end game is to destroy any and all opposition to the ‘Progressives’. Howard Dean said the pain would be worth it.
Eventually as kenyancare breaks hard the dim bulbs will figure out it is coming from them and they will abandon the dims.
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NEGATIVE , hasn’t worked that way anywhere in Europe has it? ... besides if they abandon the RATs where do they go .. RAT Lite...GOPe?
HA. What ‘cuts’? The GOP hasn’t even fought to have the Senate pass a friggin’ BUDGET, so let’s all take the 1.5T/yr deficit as the NEW baseline...Wow, some leadership.
They all had 2 yrs. to work it out, put like everything else, punted to the last minute. Now, it’s scramble to make SOMETHING work that screws over the GOP base mostly, and then shrug the shoulders saying “We got the best deal we could get.”
Boy, I can’t wait for the mid-terms already
Face it folks; no politician in either party thinks we can ever balance the budget again. If they did they would not be engaged in bitter battles about how to shave a mere $200 Billion off a deficit that totals $1002 Billion. What about the fiscal cliff which both sides fear like it was Armageddon? It only reduces the red ink by $464 Billion leaving a hole of more than half a Trillion dollars. If cutting spending and increasing revenues enough to reduce the deficit to $538 Billion will crash the economy and send us all to financial ruin how in the hell can we ever get it to zero?
Yet, I hear Boner on the mic say we need the wealthy to pay more and put up 800B+ in new taxes.
He had PLENTY of opportunities to hammer it home, instead he bends over and waves the white flag.
FIGHT for the Senate to pass a budget (NO word in 4+ yrs about THAT), FIGHT to 0-out OCare, FIGHT that the laws are for ALL Americans and make the tax cuts for all or for NONE.
Problem is, there is no FIGHT, so I didn’t and won’t fight for the GOP.
I’m sure they’ll work something out. Meanwhile, I celebrate grid-lock, frankly. If Obama and the Senate cannot get any of their pet projects funded, then Checks and Balances is truly working. O’s already a Lame Duck, though he can strut all he wants about ‘winning big,’ he has no power.
That will look like gridlock in Congress, but that’s fine. ‘Getting things done’ will only be O getting his way. I’m all for the Party of No!
I expect the shenanigans in DC to end badly for all Americans - far more badly overall than the economic devastation from this particular tax increase (which, like all tax increases, will be passed on to the middle class).
I say sir, YOU are the problem.
No one wins.
Remember how the screamers on this thread insisted it was all about the economy?
We will not raise taxes on the Rich.
or
I will give you free stuff.
So hard to choose.
O’s already a Lame Duck, though he can strut all he wants about ‘winning big,’ he has no power.
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BS! Simply letting things continue as they are is a HUGE WIN for O as we go farther and farther past the point of no return. The $787B stimulus is baked into the budget now ,, we don’t even know what to spend it on but spend we will...
Obama has a 42-7 lead with 2 minutes left and he has the ball on the 50 ,, What good is denying him a few yards? Is that getting us a win? Time to ditch our team the GOPe (1980’s Bucs) and bring a new team , the TEA Party (1990’s Patriots) onto the field for the next game.
The GOP could bring the house into session around noon on 1 Jan after all the tax rates have gone up on all the people. They could then pass a bill that:
- Restores the Bush tax rates on every one making less than $250K.
- Replaces the Bush tax rates on those making more than $250k with a rate half way between the Bush rates and the Obama/Clinton rates.
The net result is every one gets a tax cut and Obama gets a tax increase on the rich.
That's a little something.
But no spending cuts is very nasty.
It was Harry Reid who decided to talk at the last minute. Much of the blame can be placed on his Democratic Senate.
He has refused to offer ANY kind of a plan and has been putting the onus on the House. The media has put all the spotlight on Boehner without demanding anything from Reid.
In the end Reid decided to talk at the last minute. This is the same Senate that has offered no budget for years.
So the GOP will commit party suicide?
Okay...
I hope a viable new party for conservatives can emerge from the ashes in time to try to rebuild a decent new nation. Persoanlly, I think it's way too late. Our land mass is going to end up like some combination of Mexico and Russia (after the collapse of the Soviet Union) and it's all downhill from there. Maybe there can eventually be some secession, with the former America breaking up into a few smaller groups of states, and then some good old-fashioned Balkanization... Whatever.(shrug)
I'm old, and glad I grew up when I did. I do mourn for my children (and now I have grandchildren!) because they will never truly understand what America was. Oh well.
Gone Galt,
LH
The media has put all the spotlight on Boehner without demanding anything from Reid.
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Do you expect that to change anytime soon? What happens in January? Who gets blamed for the huge job losses? How many tears does Boehner shed and how much blame does he accept?
If any do now they will be skinned and they know it—SC is TEA Party thru and thru...
...we may lose this one but we will not tolerate the egg sucking RINOs who let it happen!!!
RR would be so ashamed of them.
The 70 or so member Tea Party caucus in the House should stand on principle and go down swinging. Yet it will not matter. Obama and Reid have no need for compromise due to the Sequestration passed last year. By not compromising, the Rats gain their wet dream of higher taxes for all and deep defense spending cuts. The only question is does Obama totally destroy the GOPe brand or just let it suffer a lingering slow death.
Obama will get the blame, as all presidents do, for America going to hell and then we rebuild.
What does principle matter in a country that cares so little for the truth, where ignorance and stupidity is king?
So you are going to give this to Obama for what? He's offered to give exactly nothing for this tax increase.
Let's go over this cliff. It's the only plan on the table that will actually reduce the deficit. Everything else was merely a reduction in new spending.
Nobody is going to be spared by any plan. There's pain that will be had, and all we can do is accept it sooner and smaller rather than later and larger.
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