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Motorists File Class-Action Lawsuit Against NYC Over Red-Light Cameras
CBS NewYork ^ | December 4, 2012

Posted on 12/04/2012 6:13:42 PM PST by george76

Red-light cameras are gaining popularity across the country. Now, New York City is being sued after it was accused of rigging the lights to catch more drivers and write more tickets.

They’re “gotcha” cameras, mounted at intersections. Their photos catch and fine drivers running red lights. New York City first had them in 1998.

...

By federal law, drivers have to have enough time to get through a yellow light — three seconds at the typical 30 mph intersection. Back in October, engineers at AAA New York discovered a problem. At some intersections with the cameras, the yellow lights were almost a half-second too fast.

Red-light violators who later had to pay up now say they feel set up. If you’re timing them too short, then it just becomes a revenue enhancement tool and it erodes support for the program

(Excerpt) Read more at newyork.cbslocal.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Florida; US: New Jersey; US: New York; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: cameras; corruption; govtabuse; highwayrobbery; outsourcing; privatefirm; rapeofliberty; redlight; redlightcameras; revenuetickets; tyranny
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1 posted on 12/04/2012 6:13:52 PM PST by george76
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To: george76

Red light camera in Yonkers looks like a strobe the whole time the light is yellow.


2 posted on 12/04/2012 6:24:23 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: george76

Good luck to them!


3 posted on 12/04/2012 6:49:10 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: george76

NYC ... not a setup, just business as usual. The Chicago “pay to play” is morphing into “pay to exist”.


4 posted on 12/04/2012 6:53:09 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (The law of unintended consequences is an unforgiving and vindictive b!tch!)
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To: george76

They need to do what the Brits do. They “set them alight, with a petrol-soaked tyre.”

http://www.redditmirror.cc/cache/websites/www.speedcam.co.uk_adyvb/www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm


5 posted on 12/04/2012 7:17:48 PM PST by vette6387
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To: george76
Red light cameras have changed the meaning of a yellow light. Yellow used to mean "Stop if you can do so safely." It now means "Slam on your brakes immediately to avoid getting a ticket." It should surprise no one that the cameras have been shown to increase rear end collisions.

In a study cited by the Washington Times, increasing the length of a yellow light by one second reduced red light violations by up to 80%.

For safety, get rid of the damn cameras and increase the length of the yellow. For more government revenue, add more cameras and decrease the length of the yellow.

New York made its contemptible choice.

6 posted on 12/04/2012 7:29:50 PM PST by TChad
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To: george76

Over ten years ago, I got ticketed for running a red light in NYC. I went back and timed the light at 2.5 seconds, went to traffic court. The judge asked the policeman if he had checked the light. Yessir, 5 seconds, sir. Guilty.

The citizen is assumed to be lying.

It just occurred to me that a cell phone would serve as evidence that the light is fast, if you could calibrate it down to tenths of a second.


7 posted on 12/04/2012 8:31:24 PM PST by Tymesup
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To: TChad

I ran a red light and got a ticket from a state cop. It was a fast road - bunch of cars - if I stopped quick as needed it could have been a rear-end situation. The yellow clearance interval was way too short - I researched it tremendously before I went to court - took video of scores of people running the red on a lazy Sunday afternoon - and walked into court with reams of research.

I won, ticket got thrown out and they wanted my research - I gave it to them - I asked them to have someone change the light, even went to the town where the light was and told them- nothing happened ....years later that light is still timed dangerously short. 50 mph road and under 3 second yellow.

But no red light camera——yet


8 posted on 12/04/2012 8:41:26 PM PST by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: george76

In Pennsylvania, the traffic laws clearly state that the traffic light must be set up in accordance with the engineering study for that specific intersection. I beat one in court by taking in the DOT traffic study showing the light was not set up correctly.


9 posted on 12/04/2012 8:52:19 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: Tymesup

“The citizen is assumed to be lying.”

Yes, I’ve run into the same phenomenon. If a police officer gives testimony that contradicts a citizen’s, then the police officer’s testimony is given more weight. In minor cases, it’s easier, if the cop screwed up, or doesn’t have the evidence, to just lie on the stand. The judge takes the cop’s word for it, the case is wrapped up in one sitting, and they don’t expect anyone to waste time and money going back and contesting minor things like traffic citations or misdemeanors.


10 posted on 12/04/2012 9:08:37 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: libertarian27
...years later that light is still timed dangerously short.

And it probably still produces government revenue from tickets, since few people will go to the lengths you did to prove your case.

11 posted on 12/04/2012 10:58:36 PM PST by TChad
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To: Tymesup

“The citizen is assumed to be lying.”

I received a parking ticket outside a restaurant in Newark about 20 minutes after I had put an hour’s worth of quarters into a meter (the time was written on the ticket). I described it to a friend (retired cop), and he said this was routine; they assumed you couldn’t miss a day of work to go to court (and probably lose anyway, since it couldn’t be proven).

I haven’t parked at a restaurant in Newark since then, and that was over 10 years ago. I hope it was worth it for North Zimbabwe; what a toilet. Social media must make it much easier to boycott towns that have these ticketing blitzes as municipal fundraisers.


12 posted on 12/05/2012 2:20:28 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2; Impy

Earlier this year, by a stroke of luck, I avoided a false ticket.

I was parked in a 2 hour maximum free spot in Boston. I was gone no more than 1:15 and as I turned the corner going back to my car, there was Mr. Parking Gestapo just taking his book out to write me up. I hit the panic button on my remote starter, which went off and startled him. I yelled “What are you doing? I haven’t been parked anywhere near two hours!” at him.

The fat f*ck didn’t say a word, took a few steps to the car parked in back of me and wrote that car up. I don’t recall that car being there before me, so that person got the fake ticket...


13 posted on 12/09/2012 4:49:43 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (The autopsy will show that this nation committed suicide.)
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To: kearnyirish2; Impy

Earlier this year, by a stroke of luck, I avoided a false ticket.

I was parked in a 2 hour maximum free spot in Boston. I was gone no more than 1:15 and as I turned the corner going back to my car, there was Mr. Parking Gestapo just taking his book out to write me up. I hit the panic button on my remote starter, which went off and startled him. I yelled “What are you doing? I haven’t been parked anywhere near two hours!” at him.

The fat f*ck didn’t say a word, took a few steps to the car parked in back of me and wrote that car up. I don’t recall that car being there before me, so that person got the fake ticket...


14 posted on 12/09/2012 4:53:48 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (The autopsy will show that this nation committed suicide.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

That’s a shame that cities are reduced to that to raise revenue; I just avoid them altogether. Good for you for getting out of it. I think as more and more public area is under some type of camera surveillance (not even necessarily from law enforcement), some of those “fake tickets” will taper off. Imagine you subpeona surveillance footage from a Quick Check that shows you were only there 10 minutes...


15 posted on 12/11/2012 2:53:05 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: george76
If you’re timing them too short, then it just becomes a revenue enhancement tool...

Actually, they are revenue enhancement tools regardless of how long the yellow is.

16 posted on 12/11/2012 3:05:07 AM PST by Fresh Wind
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To: george76

A while back, I got a $40 ticket from a camera for “speeding” in a Maryland construction zone. It was raining and no construction work was being done that day so no workers were present. It pissed me off that they would hand out tickets when worker safety was not an issue. I live in Virginia and go into Maryland a couple of days a week. Since Maryland has a $0.21 per gallon gas tax, I decided that I would no longer - under any circumstances - buy gas in Maryland. I now make sure to fill up every time before leaving Virginia. I figure it has cost Maryland over $200 in taxes at this point. I hope they’re happy.


17 posted on 12/11/2012 3:17:49 AM PST by KevinB (A country that would elect Barack Obama president twice is no longer worth fighting for.)
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To: kearnyirish2; Impy

“That’s a shame that cities are reduced to that to raise revenue...”

A month ago, my Mom got a $25 ticket while at Mass for parking more than 12 inches from the curb. I call BS on that, but barring proof (a photo for example), not much can be done. I guess there’s an unannounced tax for attending Church now, but that’s story for another thread. I did get my Mom a new cheapo cell phone with a camera, to record these types of things if they happen again.

This is the revenue raising tact that municipalities are taking, especially when property tax raising measures fail. Hey, gotta to pay for the townies to retire at 45 and take off to Florida, right.

As far as surveillance goes, do you really think that municipalities are going to even bother responding to subpoenas? I doubt it, unless you have a Johnny Cochran-type (yes, he’s dead) yapping.


18 posted on 12/11/2012 5:32:24 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (The autopsy will show that this nation committed suicide.)
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To: george76
Of course they're merely a revebue stream, but a better reason to oppose them is this:


19 posted on 12/11/2012 11:03:35 AM PST by arderkrag (An Unreconstructed Georgian, Forever in Rebellion.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

My town still has enough Catholic cops so they probably wouldn’t even give a legitimate ticket if someone was parked in the yellow near a Church during Mass times.

I always wondered if having a photo would do any good. I think it is easier to avoid whole areas where this is commonplace (though I understand for Mass this is impractical).

I don’t know that subpeonas can be ignored; I suspect a much cheaper lawyer could request the footage. They always have to seem plenty of private-sector security footage on the nightly news when people are killed in NYC.


20 posted on 12/12/2012 3:53:06 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

“My town still has enough Catholic cops so they probably wouldn’t even give a legitimate ticket if someone was parked in the yellow near a Church during Mass times.”

That’s excellent!

“I always wondered if having a photo would do any good.”

I did mail a pic in to dispute a faulty parking ticket ~10 years ago and it worked.

“I don’t know that subpeonas can be ignored; I suspect a much cheaper lawyer could request the footage. They always have to seem plenty of private-sector security footage on the nightly news when people are killed in NYC.”

Great points. It’s too bad that the stage has been reached where w even have to talk about subpeonas, lawyers, security camera footage and people getting killed in NYC.

“Welcome to Amerika”

p.s. I’ve been observing the demographic makeup in “white” areas (specifically, in the town in live in); you’re right, not so “white” as it is “”bronze/light bronze”.


21 posted on 12/12/2012 9:36:44 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (“Time to musk up.”)
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To: kearnyirish2

The shame is in the character of the people given authority to take such actions. I am exasperated by the system so often being blamed when this kind of shame boils down to the people using the system for some kind of personal gratification. This is especially valid in government, bottom to top and front to back.


22 posted on 12/12/2012 9:57:38 AM PST by noinfringers2
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To: GOPsterinMA

In my area the under-20 population is probably 80% “non-white”, but people still act like it is a white neighborhood. I saw on the news tonight that the US would no longer have a white majority by 2043; for years I’ve ranted on Free Republic that the other date (2050) was pulled from the air to prevent a panic.

Regardless of what the news reports, by 2020 (at the latest) whites will no longer be a majority in this country.


23 posted on 12/12/2012 8:00:03 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Spot on analysis Kearny, as usual!!!

I guess the white folks have/are:

1. Died/dying off
2. Aren’t/didn’t reproducing (anti-white male, anti-Christian white male and pro-divorce laws have all taken there desired toll)
3. Neither party wants to address the immigration (legal or otherwise) or economic problems (destroying production; shipping American jobs “over there”) that have been building for decades.

“PRESTO”: Our Western-European/Judeo-Christian-based nation withers and dies.

Am I missing something?


24 posted on 12/13/2012 5:41:49 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

Thanks.

You aren’t missing anything; at least we don’t have to take a 6 hour flight to get to Europe anymore - it’s right here...


25 posted on 12/13/2012 2:55:03 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

You’re welcome.

RE: Europe. Good point. They don’t have AA programs though, so from that point, Europe’s better.


26 posted on 12/14/2012 5:42:12 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“They don’t have AA programs though, so from that point, Europe’s better.”

You’re right; in fact it is much different there. Turks can legally live & work in Germany for 30 years without getting the benefits of citizenship.


27 posted on 12/14/2012 9:20:51 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Yes. November 6, 2012 has me thinking: “Move EAST, young man.”


28 posted on 12/14/2012 9:54:48 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“November 6, 2012 has me thinking: “Move EAST, young man.” “

If you can speak one of the languages of the countries that need workers (like Germany), and you have a skill, then you should be a desirable catch for them. Europe and Canada are very liberal, though; a friend worked in Italy for a year, and while she liked it she was shocked at how far left everyone was. Nobody had kids, and she said they viewed BJ Clinton as right-of-center (seriously).


29 posted on 12/14/2012 10:05:04 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

HA! Italy is actually my target country.

Most of my cousins my age are married with kids. My g/f has duel citizenship, so if “the move” is made together, I suspect we’d marry there.

I do have to work on my Italian literacy.

November 6, 2012 definitely got me thinking in a different way.


30 posted on 12/14/2012 11:44:20 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

My friend worked in Milan; they had emergency pollution days (in which only mass transit was allowed) and occasional transit strikes, but she liked it.

Knowing Italian would certainly help; Spanish is close.

11/6/12 made me realize there was going to be little economic growth here, and that a lot Americans still believe the European-style socialism (which has failed miserably) is viable. As a Spanish speaker, I could live in an increasingly-Hispanic country; I just don’t think I want to do it in NJ.


31 posted on 12/14/2012 2:30:08 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

I was jsut there for two weeks (my 9th trip there in all); I loved it.

“Knowing Italian would certainly help; Spanish is close.”

Yes, my two years of HS Espanol has been helpful.

11/6/12: Spot on analysis. “I could live in an increasingly-Hispanic country; I just don’t think I want to do it in NJ.”

Or MA either.


32 posted on 12/16/2012 9:59:24 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“I could live in an increasingly-Hispanic country; I just don’t think I want to do it in NJ.

Or MA either.”

Yes, it would have to be a state where they’d be more responsible for their costs. In lib states the freebies just smother any economy...


33 posted on 12/16/2012 10:21:45 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Right. I’ll say that the freebie takers have more rights than the freebie makers (aka the worker bees). I’ve about had it with that unbalanced equation.


34 posted on 12/16/2012 10:47:21 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“I’ll say that the freebie takers have more rights than the freebie makers (aka the worker bees).”

Before at least the makers could distance themselves from the takers; now the government will put section 8 housing in the makers’ neighborhoods so that while you work your taxes can feed them and they can steal your stuff (because you’re at work). The older whites leaving my neighborhood (for care facilities, or by dying) are the loss of a real stability; they were the neighborhood watch.


35 posted on 12/17/2012 3:41:54 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: vette6387

So those speeding ticket cameras were necklaced....The perps learned that from Mandela’s crowd in South Africa


36 posted on 12/17/2012 3:51:53 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything)
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To: kearnyirish2

Exactly - the “green zone” is also being/been dissolved.

I have a friend in Florida that has a $1 million+ mansion on the ocean; 200 feet away are projects. Very, very bad looking projects.

My first question to him was: “Did you never look at the place in the daylight?” Followed up with: “If you’re that blind, you shouldn’t be driving.”

I told him he was insane on many levels to buy (and stay) there because when TSHTF time comes, unless he can take off instantly in his boat, he has no escape route; the contraband are right there. Dummy.


37 posted on 12/17/2012 6:09:09 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“I have a friend in Florida that has a $1 million+ mansion on the ocean; 200 feet away are projects. Very, very bad looking projects.”

That is why the “Asbury Park Renaissance” never happened; they tried to lure people with money back there after it became a welfare reservation (even lowering themselves to courting deviants - they have money because they can’t breed), but anyone who went down there could “meet & greet” the neighbors (including the five permanently-dependent wards of the sate and the one law enforcement officer each newcomer would have to provide for). In the end it never happened; building stood half-finished and Asbury Park NJ is on ghosttowns.com (even though some people live there).


38 posted on 12/18/2012 3:54:39 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

” In the end it never happened; building stood half-finished and Asbury Park NJ is on ghosttowns.com (even though some people live there).”

My God! It looks like Detroit or Cuba! Wow...

Do you watch “It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia”? There was an episode last season: “The Gang Goes to the Jersey Shore”, I think I know where they filmed it.

Yeah, my friend brain-farted on his “buy”. He’s stuck now. Luckily people with two functioning braincells didn’t return to Asbury Park. Maybe “Brooooooce” can buy the place and fix it up. Oh right, libs only spend OTHER people’s money.


39 posted on 12/18/2012 5:15:17 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

No, nobody’s going to move into Asbury Park until...well...you know. In Jersey City the gentrification is proceeding the only way it can: displace the permanent welfare parasites.


40 posted on 12/18/2012 2:29:55 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Tymesup
The citizen is assumed to be lying.

You'll find plenty of "Law and Order" Republicans here on FR that will defend that practice.

41 posted on 12/18/2012 3:00:42 PM PST by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: kearnyirish2

Yes, I know.

I’m still shocked at the pics on that website. It looks Chernobyl-ish.

Sooner or later, the “cans” will get kicked down the road and the area (which apparently was very, very nice at one time) will be redeveloped.


42 posted on 12/18/2012 5:52:59 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“I’m still shocked at the pics on that website. It looks Chernobyl-ish.”

Absolutely. Everyone knows the only way to fix it, and they’ll keep abortion legal and subsidized, artificial contraception in the high schools, and time limits on welfare to make it happen.


43 posted on 12/19/2012 4:17:44 AM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

“Everyone knows the only way to fix it...”

Yes they do.

I’m still shocked at the condition of Asbury Park. Was it ever nice if/when you went there?


44 posted on 12/19/2012 7:41:30 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

No; I’m just over 40, and it was already overrun by that point. I suspect it’s heyday was about 50 years ago.


45 posted on 12/19/2012 2:42:54 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Seems like a lot of things started their decent ~50 years ago. The biggest and most inpactful being our society.

I get all warm and fuzzy when I hear friends of mine (late 70’s y/o Korean War vets) make comments like: “I’m glad I’m on my way out.”

They agree too; the fall started in the 60’s.


46 posted on 12/19/2012 3:11:03 PM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

Being from a large family, we missed the ascent; I was paying high school tuition before I ever went to college. I’m glad, otherwise I would think this sucks...


47 posted on 12/19/2012 8:23:33 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

Oh wow...no free ride for you either.

I still think “this” sucks though.


48 posted on 12/20/2012 10:20:30 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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To: GOPsterinMA

“Oh wow...no free ride for you either. I still think “this” sucks though.”

I do, too, but I think it been much worse on my peers who were “only children” or who came from wealthier families (their expectations were higher). I graduated college in the early 90s, when the economy was bad (in a relative sense - now I know what a BAD economy looks like); I understood how Bush 1 lost because I remember all the recent graduates looking for work. I was working some full-time dead-end job I’d had through high school & college, and I didn’t really have debt (or even a car) so at least I could pay bills/have some money until I could find better work.

I could imagine how depressing this whole thing looks to older people who had it good until recently.


49 posted on 12/20/2012 2:30:07 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: kearnyirish2

“...but I think it been much worse on my peers who were “only children” or who came from wealthier families (their expectations were higher).”

“I could imagine how depressing this whole thing looks to older people who had it good until recently.”

Right, but apparently, they voted for four more years of this sewage.

I also graduated from college without debt; Thank God! It’s nice not to have that ball and chain dragging...


50 posted on 12/21/2012 7:45:01 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (Time to musk up.)
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