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To: Gene Eric

...interesting model, but I think viewing this on a continuum expresses it better. Totalitarianism (Communism, other forms of despotism) to the far left, followed closely by Fascism. ...a bit to the right of that: Socialism, then Corporate Socialism, etc. (Democrats are Socialists, Republicans are generally Corporate Socialists.) The other extreme would be Anarchy, not Libertarianism.

For those not comfortable with Libertarianism, try “Natural Law” instead. There is not much difference, and Natural Law relies on morality. The Founding Fathers were clearly Natural Law proponents. They repeatedly referred to the Creator and Providence. The Declaration of Independence is the greatest expression of Natural Law ever penned - although I wish Jefferson had not dropped “property” from Locke’s original.


33 posted on 12/02/2012 3:21:29 AM PST by rashley (Rashley)
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To: rashley

Remarks appreciated. Definitely a coarse graph, but could probably support the plot points you mentioned.

The important thing to point out is the diverging transparent axes: the horizontal axis represents the moral divide. The vertical axis represents enforcement. Unless there’s another dimension, the plane should suffice.

>> For those not comfortable with Libertarianism, try “Natural Law” instead.

I’m getting tired of the belligerent bullshit on this matter. I have no intention of sacrificing definitive meaning for the sake of idiocracy.


34 posted on 12/02/2012 3:33:43 AM PST by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: rashley
For those not comfortable with Libertarianism, try “Natural Law” instead. There is not much difference, and Natural Law relies on morality. The Founding Fathers were clearly Natural Law proponents.

You might want to go back and look up what the Founders actually did, the laws that they passed.

In today's world they would be considered extremist right-wingers when it came to "imposing their morality" on others.

The problem here is that we extrapolate from the Constitution to their views on society and laws in general. The Constitution is (from an historical perspective) a wildly libertarian document.

This is not because the Founders were libertarians but because they wanted a limited federal government. With rare exceptions the state governments were not limited at all, and used their powers enthusiastically to impose morality.

The Bill of Rights didn't even apply to the states till after the Civil War, and states violated them all the time. For instance, southern states made it a crime to speak in favor of abolition and prohibited abolitionist newspapers, both violations of the First Amendment.

36 posted on 12/02/2012 4:33:14 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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