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To: WhiskeyX

The "Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union between the States" were in fact a perpetual compact among thirteen states, but that was replaced by the "Constitution of the United States" and never applied to the other 37 (43?) states.

At no point in the text of the Constitution of the United States is the word "perpetual" or any synonym used to describe the union. In the absence of such a mandate, I would argue that the 10th Amendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," clearly grants states the legal authority to secede. The practical power - the ability to resist conquest by the United States is a different question, one on which the Confederacy fell short, but states have a constitutional grant of the legal power to secede. Secession is a question of strength and will, not of law - the "supreme Law of the Land" permits that option, as does the long tradition of deciding such questions by force of arms, or by mutual consent. The socialists in our White House and in the Senate have no legal obligation to resist a peaceful secession, and I pray that they will not feel bound (whether for noble reasons or otherwise) to do so if the situation arises.

54 posted on 11/28/2012 11:11:26 AM PST by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Pollster1

Walt knows his argument about perpetual is specious. He just has nothing better. So he distracts.

Your point about the tenth amendment is spot on. States retained rights not delegated, and therefore the right to leave is retained by the states. The ninth amendment also supports this view.


84 posted on 11/28/2012 11:50:30 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Pollster1

Your response is the classic error made by all of thee proponents of illegal and treasono us secession. For example you wrote:

The “Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union between the States” were in fact a perpetual compact among thirteen states, but that was replaced by the “Constitution of the United States” and never applied to the other 37 (43?) states.

No, the Articles of Confederation were not “replaced by the” Constitution at all. That is the classic mistake. The Preamble of the Constitution says in part, “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more
perfect Union...do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” The Constitution suplemented, superceded, and gave full faith and credit to the Engagements, treaties, and acts of many provisions of the Articles of Confederation and the Declaration of Independeence. The authors of the Constitution did not reiterate the “stile” of the United States of America, the Perpetual Union, and many other provisions of the Articles of Confederation because they wrote the Constitution as an extension to the Articles of confederation to “form a more perfect Union” and not as a replacement of the Articles of Confederation to form a different Union.

The Constitution says:

Article. VI.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The ratifications of the Articles of Confederation and the Declaration of Independence are among the “Engagements” the Constitution commits to recognizing as the “supreme Law of the Land....”

Anyone who wants to secede their State from the perpetual Union is obligated by the Constitution and its fulfillment of the Engagement with the Articles of Confederation to secure the approval of the seceding State, the consent of Congress, and the ratification by the States of the Perpetual Union. Anything less constitutes the advocacy of subverting the Constitution, its guarnatee of a Republican form of government for every State, and Treason if and when in armed rebellion in alliance with the enemies of the United States of America.


92 posted on 11/28/2012 12:02:48 PM PST by WhiskeyX
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