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Eliminate the death tax (one can't even mourn the death of a parent without worrying about taxes)
American Thinker ^ | 11/18/2012 | Rick Moran

Posted on 11/18/2012 6:59:19 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Is it "fair" that the federal government be able to take more than half the wealth created by estates of more than $3.5 million at the time of death?

Of course it is, says the left - even if 97% of farmers and ranchers will be impacted.

Fox News:

******

Two decades ago, Kester paid the IRS $2 million when he inherited a 22,000-acre cattle ranch from his grandfather. Come January, the tax burden on his children will be more than $13 million.

For supporters of a high estate tax, which is imposed on somebody's estate after death, Kester is the kind of person they rarely mention. He doesn't own a mansion. He's not the CEO of a multi-national. But because of his line of work, he owns a lot of property that would be subject to a lot of tax.

"Our number one goal is to repeal the estate tax, to get rid of it, not have it for every generation, when I die and my kids die and so on," he told Fox News. "For everyone to have to re-purchase the ranch or farm over and over for each generation, that's inherently unjust. So what we're doing is asking our politicians to understand that and repeal the estate tax."

That, however, is unlikely. Currently, the federal government taxes estates worth $5 million dollars and up at 35 percent. When the Bush-era tax rates expire in January, rates increase to 55 percent on estates of $1 million or more. While some Republicans want to eliminate the death tax entirely, President Obama has proposed a 45 percent rate on estates of $3.5 million and up.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathtax; estatetax
NOTE THE LEFT's ARGUMENT:

"The idea behind the estate tax is to prevent the very wealthy among us from accumulating vast fortunes that they can pass along to the next generation," said Patrick Lester, director of Federal Fiscal Policy with the progressive think tank -- OMB Watch. "The poster child for the estate tax is Paris Hilton -- the celebrity and hotel heiress. That's who this is targeted at, not ordinary Americans."

NOTE THE OBSESSION WITH PARIS HILTON.

The logic is to punish everyone else in order to get at Paris Hilton.

1 posted on 11/18/2012 6:59:25 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Just to keep the property in the hands of people who know what to do with it the best bet is to change the inheritance laws to require that it all be passed on to the 500 closest blood relatives ~ and not just that property but any wealth passed along earlier to a foundation.

Fur shur I could use the money, and there are several large foundations out there that need to be distributed to the heirs ~ meaning me!

2 posted on 11/18/2012 7:10:32 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind
Paris grandfather has already limited her stake in the family wealth ~ something like $5 million, or less. That's why she was out there selling her body while the selling was good!

If anything Paris is the poster child for what's wrong with our inheritance laws.

3 posted on 11/18/2012 7:12:24 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I wonder... should America design her tax laws around trying to net families like the Hilton’s?


4 posted on 11/18/2012 7:14:44 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

America’s tax and inheritance laws certainly drove Paris Hilton to prostitution ~ poor girl.


5 posted on 11/18/2012 7:16:38 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind

Folks with taxable estates should just begin marrying their children and grandchildren. The trend is toward other than normal marriage. Is there some test of sexual contact that validates a new marriage? It seems to me the argument has become about fairness and the ability to marry those one loves. Surely marrying one’s progeny conforms to the new normal. Once an old fart is finished marrying and divorcing his children and grandchildren, the distribution of assets would have taken place through the dissolution of marriages and the government will have been denied its last bite of the apple.


6 posted on 11/18/2012 7:19:02 AM PST by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
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To: SeekAndFind
I would take the left's argument about the fairness of the death tax more seriously if half the Kennedy family fortune was turned over to the government with each generation instead of being hidden away in trusts. Joe's generation is dead, just about all of his kids and their spouses are and some of the next generation have died too. That comes up to 7/8 for the government and 1/8 for Joe's great grand children (assuming succeeding generations haven't produced anything other than politicians and ne'er-do- wells, which is pretty close to 100%).

Even Rose Kennedy, who spend the last ten years of her life in Massachusetts, stayed a Florida resident to evade state taxes.

So don't tell me that a small businessman or farmer who worked all of his life for a few million dollars should have the fillings ripped out of his corpse when the bigwigs on the left hide their fortunes from the tax.

7 posted on 11/18/2012 7:19:59 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: SeekAndFind

This is the federal mob we are talking about.

Oh, your mom just died? **** you, pay me.


8 posted on 11/18/2012 7:20:26 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The death tax is tyrannical and just palin evil. I cannot believe that it exists in The USA. Sad, sad, sad. Our founding fathers would be disgusted.


9 posted on 11/18/2012 7:23:14 AM PST by KansasGirl ("If you have a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."--B. Hussein Obama)
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To: muawiyah

Even when it was happening, I was 99% sure that she was behind the release of her sex tape. She knew $5M wouldn’t last with her lifestyle. That sleazy little wench is probably smarter than we realize.


10 posted on 11/18/2012 7:23:30 AM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: SeekAndFind

Lets shine some light here.

1) Very few pay the estate tax. They manage around it with charitable gifts they still control and trusts.

2) Eliminating the estate tax does not eliminate tax, it merely changes when and how it is paid. If property does not get a “stepped up basis” in the estate, it retains the purchase cost and there is gain when the inherited items are sold.

3) I may be one of the few here but I do fear concentration of power and wealth. Unfortunately the estate tax does not prevent this..................................


11 posted on 11/18/2012 7:24:05 AM PST by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: SeekAndFind

The inheritance tax needs to be cut to 10% with a 10 million dollar exemption (currently 35% with a 5 million exempt and 55% and 1 million if we go over the fiscal cliff).

If we go back to 55% and 1 million, what the rich people do is set up a charitable foundation which inherits the money (no tax because it is charity) with the board members all family who get paid free travel when on foundation business (it is like taxpayers paying for congressional junkets), and paid health care, a nice salary (just like United Way), free car, etc.


12 posted on 11/18/2012 7:25:39 AM PST by staytrue
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To: catfish1957
She's definitely far smarter than her popular image. Her friend Lindsey Lohan finally came out ~ AS A REPUBLICAN!

Two down and one to go ~ but that lady is bipolar and was busy getting through the marriage, divorce, have babies part of her life while off her meds ~ a major, but to most, invisible sacrifice.

13 posted on 11/18/2012 7:27:04 AM PST by muawiyah
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Donate here!

FReepathon is still on. Day 49
If not now, when?



14 posted on 11/18/2012 7:27:20 AM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: chris37
Oh, your mom just died? **** you, pay me.

Pretty much somes up our empathetic government.

15 posted on 11/18/2012 7:27:35 AM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: SeekAndFind

This is why so many ‘family’ farms have been incorporated. In this region, farming wheat takes several sections (640 acres/section—a square mile). Add in the cost of the equipment to till, plant, and harvest, and the equipment alone is over a million. Try to pay the death tax out of the thin margins of profit, and you end up selling the farm (enough of it to keep it economically viable) to inherit it.


16 posted on 11/18/2012 7:32:22 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: KarlInOhio
So don't tell me that a small businessman or farmer who worked all of his life for a few million dollars should have the fillings ripped out of his corpse when the bigwigs on the left hide their fortunes from the tax.

This is a very emotional issue, gets peoples attention.

Many estate tax laws have been written to solve this such as special valuation for assets for family members that continue in the business.

But yet, the problem still "exists" because it is useful politically

17 posted on 11/18/2012 7:36:14 AM PST by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: SeekAndFind

In Louisiana, you can’t die without a lawyer. At death, a decedent’s bank account is frozen until a succession is done.


18 posted on 11/18/2012 7:39:53 AM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: SeekAndFind

All private property (land) should actually be owned by the state and you should rent, not own, this land. This is the precept that the Marxism left operates under. They hate the fact that wealth can be passed down to heirs instead of going to The State. The key thing here is to create a utopia in which the worker bees are so busy having to scratch out a living (serfs) that they don’t have the time or energy to protest the corrupt government. Through taxation and inflation they will grind us down into virtual slaves and have income equality. While the 47% (plus the usual idiots) will cheer this on.


19 posted on 11/18/2012 7:41:39 AM PST by BipolarBob (The first thirty years of my childhood were less than desirable.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
How does incorporation help? Upon death of the corporation's owner the heir will have to pay the tax on the shares of the corporation they inherit. The corporation might help by keeping the farm in one piece even if partial ownership is sold to pay the tax, or with tricky accounting you might be able to claim the corporation is worth less than the farmland and equipment are worth and thus avoid the tax, but other than that I don't see how to avoid the tax.
20 posted on 11/18/2012 7:46:12 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Distribute shares of the Corporation to the heirs while you are alive.


21 posted on 11/18/2012 7:51:31 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: PeterPrinciple

In response to a couple of your points.....

1) Very few pay the estate tax. They manage around it with charitable gifts they still control and trusts.

However, many more spent thousands of dollars in legal and/or accounting fees and hours and hours of time to avoid it. Time and money that could be invested on the business goes to successfully defeat the government. The only “winners” are the lawyers and accountants.

2) Eliminating the estate tax does not eliminate tax, it merely changes when and how it is paid. If property does not get a “stepped up basis” in the estate, it retains the purchase cost and there is gain when the inherited items are sold.

My family has held many of the same assets for well over 100 years. And if assets were sold usually the capital gains tax is less than the estate tax.


22 posted on 11/18/2012 7:53:33 AM PST by Controlling Legal Authority
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To: Sgt_Schultze
Folks with taxable estates should just begin marrying their children and grandchildren.

Most rich people got rich by working hard and being smart. They are smart enough to realize that the kids should make their way on their own with just a little help from mom and dad. To do this, there is an informal network where "I'll hire your kid, if you hire my kid." The kids don't work for their parents, have a real boss, have to make it on their own or they are fired, but they do get their foot in the door first along with invaluable experience.

Expanding this concept to your idea would mean "my kid will marry your aged grand dad, if your kid will marry my aged grand dad. All perfectly legal.

23 posted on 11/18/2012 7:54:32 AM PST by staytrue
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To: SeekAndFind

The left loves to take farmers’ land.


24 posted on 11/18/2012 7:59:36 AM PST by Andrei Bulba (No Obama, no way!)
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To: SeekAndFind
The purpose of the inheritance tax is to destroy all family-owned businesses and giver their stuff to the big-government/big-corporate criminal complex.

Which is why it will never go away.

A confiscatory inheritance tax is also Plank #3 of the Communist Manifesto, so there's that as well.

The Ten Planks of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto
(and How Statists Implement Them)

  1. Abolition of private property rights (via high property taxes, restrictive zoning laws, "fair housing" edicts, environmental and "wetlands" regulations, UN Agenda 21, etc.)

  2. Institution of a heavily graduated income tax (by calling it "taxing the rich")

  3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance (through a confiscatory estate tax on "the rich")

  4. Confiscation of the property of enemies of the state (through lawless application of asset forfeiture and eminent domain)

  5. Centralization of credit into the hands of the state (Federal Reserve, Federal Trade Commission, TARP, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, federal takeover of student loans, etc.)

  6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation into the hands of the state (FCC, DOT, FEMA, NTSB, FAA, etc.).

  7. Consolidation and subjugation of all major industries to central government control (FDA, EPA, OSHA, ICC, HUD, NLRB, EEOC, DOE, TSA etc.)

  8. Mandatory labor union membership ("card check" to bypass employee consent, automatic withholding of union dues, forced unionization of health care workers, teachers, police, firefighters, etc.)

  9. Equitable redistribution of all wealth (TANF, SSI, EITC, SNAP, etc.)

  10. Free public education (and food, housing, health care, cell phones, Internet access, etc.)

25 posted on 11/18/2012 8:05:21 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: BipolarBob
All private property (land) should actually be owned by the state and you should rent, not own, this land.

It already is. Property tax is rent. Try not paying it and see who "owns" the house/property.

FMCDH(BITS)

26 posted on 11/18/2012 8:09:04 AM PST by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: SeekAndFind

I was thinking about this today-

If Congress was able to simply “exempt themselves” from the new Healthcare laws with barely a peep from the MSM, couldn’t they do the same thing with THIS tax and many others?

Perhaps they already have. It would not surprise me to find they are exempt from all taxes, or have special loopholes for their personal situations.


27 posted on 11/18/2012 8:12:46 AM PST by a real Sheila (R.I.P AMERICA 1776 - 2012)
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To: All

There is no acceptable reason for a death tax, indeed, I was insulted when I heard some lame academic say we don’t want a lot of wealth created and passed along to future generations...

Says who....this clown doesn’t speak for me or millions of other Americans who would be proud to make enough in their life times so that their future children and grand children don’t have to work 40-60 hours a week for 40 years......let them enjoy life, not work....turn them loose to dream and get us to where we should be in science and technology.....

Why are we still driving cars that run on tires and gas....we should be driving hover craft run on renewables....

I am and will always be against the government STEALING money from us when we die....

NO DEATH TAXES....EVER


28 posted on 11/18/2012 8:13:58 AM PST by The Wizard (Madam President is my President now and in the future)
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To: SeekAndFind

I saw that video....what could he have against Paris Hilton....looks like she’s worth every cent


29 posted on 11/18/2012 8:16:21 AM PST by The Wizard (Madam President is my President now and in the future)
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To: Smokin' Joe
That's good for $13000 per heir per year (up to $52000 if given couple to couple). But the IRS will be watching out for undervaluing the assets of a non-publicly traded corporation.
30 posted on 11/18/2012 8:21:19 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: SeekAndFind
This is the clown I meant...who the hell is he to say this....go to Syria if you believe this crap

"The idea behind the estate tax is to prevent the very wealthy among us from accumulating vast fortunes that they can pass along to the next generation," said Patrick Lester, director of Federal Fiscal Policy with the progressive think tank -- OMB Watch.

Hey buddy, it will not just effect those you choose....and just who do you think you are to choose....sounds like wealth envy to me....

31 posted on 11/18/2012 8:21:35 AM PST by The Wizard (Madam President is my President now and in the future)
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To: KarlInOhio

Is that annually?


32 posted on 11/18/2012 8:25:06 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

Yes, per year. If you give above that is starts counting against your estate’s final exemption from the tax. I don’t know what forms you have to fill out if you give more than your total exemption while still alive or what happens to people who are below the current exemption but above the new one if it drops back to its old level in 2013.


33 posted on 11/18/2012 8:32:02 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: KarlInOhio

So, with four or five kids, it would take some planning to hang on to the farm, and some agreements up front to keep it together.


34 posted on 11/18/2012 8:39:13 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: SeekAndFind
Eliminate the death tax (one can't even mourn the death of a parent without worrying about taxes)

A key element in the socialists' wealth redistribution scheming.

35 posted on 11/18/2012 8:58:43 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Remember the Heroic SEALs of Benghazi and DEMAND a Full Accounting!!!!)
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To: Sgt_Schultze
Folks with taxable estates should just begin marrying their children and grandchildren.

Funny. I was just thinking the same weird thought. Use the governments own laws against them. Perhaps something like the idea of an intergenerational line marriage as written in Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". After all, if gay marriage is "normal" what's to limit any combination as defining a marriage?

36 posted on 11/18/2012 9:02:53 AM PST by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: staytrue

Re: YOUR LAST SENTENCE:

that’s the way Anna Nicole Smith hoped to do it.


37 posted on 11/18/2012 9:05:00 AM PST by supremedoctrine
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To: SeekAndFind

The smart rich don’t pay these taxes. Blind trusts and other instruments keep that from happening. This is all about the Democrap party’s Communist goal and one of them is attacking the rich out of petty and childish jealousy.


38 posted on 11/18/2012 9:12:54 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: PeterPrinciple
I may be one of the few here but I do fear concentration of power and wealth.

You should qualify your comments. People should fear and be repulsed by power and wealth concentrated in government, or via government connections.

If you fear wealth concentration (accumulation) in private hands that is a result of honest hard work, accomplished strictly in the free-enterprise system, then you are brainwashed by the evil left.

39 posted on 11/18/2012 9:34:05 AM PST by sand88
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To: PeterPrinciple

“If property does not get a “stepped up basis” in the estate, it retains the purchase cost and there is gain when the inherited items are sold.”

That’s the dirty secret about the elimination of “death tax”.

By eliminating the stepped up basis, the middle class becomes taxes on inherited property.

Say a guy worked for Chevron for thirty-five years, accumulated a thousand shares of CVX in a taxable account. Say his cost basis is $20/share and the stock is now worth $100/share: market value would be $100k and cost basis would be $20k. Say the value of his house, bank accounts, and retirement accounts plus the $100k in CVX stock totalled $500k when he died. Under the old law, his estate would not be taxable at all. His heirs would receive the stock with a stepped-up basis of $100/share. If they were to sell the stock, no capital gains tax would be due. With the elimination of the “death tax”, though, his heirs receive the stock with a cost basis of $20/share. When they sell the stock, they get to pay capital gains tax on $80,000. They also get to experience the joy of figuring out what their cost basis is.

Not one in hundred people advocating for the elimination of the “death tax” knows that it probably will increase the taxes paid on the property they leave to their heirs. Only the exceptionally well-off benefit from the proposals under consideration.

I don’t much care about concentration of wealth: I’d prefer no death tax and no capital gain tax. But nobody is proposing that, and what they are proposing will increase capital gains taxes paid by the middle class.


40 posted on 11/18/2012 9:59:52 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: CodeToad

“The smart rich don’t pay these taxes. Blind trusts and other instruments keep that from happening.”

Oh, yes, they do pay those taxes even with several excellent tax attorneys.
The government beaurocrats work full time making sure there are very few loopholes left for you to figure out a way to allow your family to keep any of your estate.

I have worked on three large estates in the last couple of years and it is sickening at what these hard working people have to sell to pay taxes to the damn government to waste. Worked their asses off all their lives and lived very frugal lives unlike the damned government. One estate will be selling assets of over $20 million to pay the extortionist Fed. government.

That $20 million COULD have been used to hire more people. Now, it will MAYBE pay for one of Moochelle’s overseas trips.

They had excellent tax attorneys but there is only so much they can do within the law. And believe me it was a complicated mess just to be able to keep what they were allowed to keep.

And unless you are Warren Buffett or Bill Gates a family foundation will be ripe for an audit.


41 posted on 11/18/2012 10:03:57 AM PST by kcvl
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To: KansasGirl

it’s a tax on things already taxed., and in many cases , have been paying taxes all along, like family businesses.


42 posted on 11/18/2012 10:07:22 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Skepolitic

In order to speak about the death tax one must also talk about the gift tax. Transferring money to people starts that calculator running.


43 posted on 11/18/2012 10:08:50 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: kcvl

$20 mill??? That sucks. In some siutations there isn’t the ability to discount that money, such as one time selling of a business, but usually if a person/family is willing to let go of some of the control over monies/property the taxes can be spared.


44 posted on 11/18/2012 10:10:40 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: KarlInOhio

The best part?

The IRS does the assessment of the value of ranches, farms, etc.

The heirs have just 90 days to pay the taxes or the IRS liens the property...no delays.


45 posted on 11/18/2012 11:27:15 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: CodeToad

Yes, $20 million. It was an unexpected death but the family still had excellent tax palnning in place. There is just only so much one can do to avoid the death tax.

I understand the family still has plenty left but it is outrageous for the government to confiscate that much money just because someone died!


46 posted on 11/18/2012 6:25:11 PM PST by kcvl
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