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To: DTogo
Utilities pay a contractual rate for wind energy, which should be included in the mix of their rate to consumers.

The "contractual rate" the utilities pay is higher than the rate they would pay for conventionally generated power -- from their own plants or others. "Wind energy" is innately expensive. The utilities pay a premium price for it, ergo so do you.

Those idiots who choose to pay a further premium for "environmentally-friendly wind energy" from the likes of the Wyly Brothers' Green Mountain Energy are even dumber.

Utilities must have back up and reserve generation anyway, for peak demand periods and/or when other plants are taken offline for scheduled maintenance.

Yes. But only "wind energy" (and solar) require 100% back-up! And, since the utilities have to build the cost of such facilities into their rate base, we're paying for them even when the windmills are turning.

The wind may be "free", compared to coal or gas fuel, but the prohibitive cost of "harnessing" the wind eliminates whatever cost advantage it may have possessed.

"Wind energy" makes every bit as much sense as automobile fuel from corn.

In the absence of government subsidy and/or mandate, it would never happen!

45 posted on 11/17/2012 2:25:36 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: okie01
Yes. But only "wind energy" (and solar) require 100% back-up!

Exactly right. This is another way of saying they generate NO baseload power, since you cannot count on them being available 24/7/365 like coal, nuke, hydro or natural gas.

But wait, there's more! Solar and wind can't be relied on for demand response, either: you don't know if they can generate enough at the time of the demand. (Solar is usually better about this than wind.)

So, it's just "green" unicorn fart power that nobody can count on. Without the subsidies, every last grid-tied wind project would be torn down or abandoned.

50 posted on 11/17/2012 3:08:11 PM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: okie01
The "contractual rate" the utilities pay is higher than the rate they would pay for conventionally generated power -- from their own plants or others.

Many new wind farms in the Midwest, where wind is strong and consistent, can (and do!) sell their energy under a 20-year contract for $30-35/MWh flat. No new gas or coal-fired coal plant can do that, without a long-term fuel hedge that would require a much higher energy sale price to yield the same return.

In the absence of government subsidy and/or mandate, it would never happen!

Many other things would also not have happened.

53 posted on 11/17/2012 3:53:18 PM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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