Pretty much this whole discussion has been about how “most” civilizations have collapsed because of excessive welfare payments to the non-working poor. This makes us feel all historically parallel to today.
The problem is that, as I have pointed out several times and nobody has attempted to challenge, no civilizations have collapsed for this cause, for the fairly obvious reason that such payments as a major contributor to a government’s expenses did not exist in the past. This type of government program is pretty much limited to the post-WWII period.
IOW, we’re watching the first time it’s happened right now. Greece, with much of the rest of Europe not far behind. And the USA somewhere in there.
I quite agree that the US (and European) systems are unsustainable. As, in the VERY long run, was the Roman system. But that’s pretty much all they have in common. True, the Romans at times attempted primitive forms of command economy control, but they were never able to sustain them for long, and such systems were NEVER based on the idea of funneling funds to make the lives of the poor more endurable.
As I assume you are aware, in the long run all governmental systems are unsustainable.
I am not saying “how ‘most’ civilizations have collapsed because of excessive welfare payments to the non-working poor.”
I am saying that “encouraging dependency, confiscating production, debasing the currency and the government reacting to the resultant ill-effects by insinuating itself even further into the economy” is what the article in the OP said brought down Classical Rome and threatens to bring down America and Western Civilization.
“systems were NEVER based on the idea of funneling funds to make the lives of the poor more endurable.”
That certainly was not the case in Rome, nor is it the case in collectivist West — including America. The social welfare state now and the dole system then was and is designed to mollify the poor and make sure that they were kept unable to take care of themselves. People who are able to see to their own needs have no need for social workers.
“As I assume you are aware, in the long run all governmental systems are unsustainable.”
All? A limited representative gov’t that has its legitimacy and authority based upon protecting freedom — rather than behavior modification/social engineering is eminently sustainable.
The founding of the United States of America showed the world that limited representative gov’t can work and ushered in the Industrial Revolution. Once it became possible to acquire economic success by effort rather than birth/cronyism, the creative power of the population was unleashed — to the benefit of all.
well, there wasn't just one Roman system -- there was
Ok, the longest system is a dominate ruled by an oligarchy, but the problem is that it ends up with people selling out the nation for their own personal ends
historically that hasn't been proven. Many people don't want freedom -- as we saw in the last election. And Switzerland isn't a good example -- contrary to belief, Switzerland has had turmoil -- right from the first union of Uri, Unterwald and Schwyz it was initially under Hapsburg domination, then in 1797 it became the Helvetic Union dominated by France, then in the 1800s it had internal war between the rural and urban cantons.
A libertarian society can only function for one period of time in a vacuum.