[Reeses]

Civil wars and the cost of the army had a LOT more to do with it.

During war the left side of the bell curve, the welfare class, tends to be killed off disproportionately resulting in a slight but measurable population IQ boost. Military need drives the "cutting edge" of technology. Later this new technology is commercialized leading to greater wealth. Short term, military spending leads to hardship but long term it leads to wealth. Instead most nations are destroyed by welfare spending. The United Kingdom is a spectacular example of this. Most history books are written by leftists so the consensus opinion is not tied to the truth.

[Sherman Logan]

Instead most nations are destroyed by welfare spending.

Serious historical illiteracy.

Prior to the last 100 years, and in particular the last 50 years, few if any nations have a history of large-scale spending on welfare payments to the poor.

This thread posits the Roman Empire as a single example. I contend that this is a vast oversimplification of the empire's history, that even if we accept the annona as a primary cause of the empire's decline and fall, it took it 4 to 6 centuries to do its work.

I'd settle for another 4 centuries for the USA.

Care to provide a few more examples of the "most nations" that were "destroyed by welfare spending?" Since we're talking about most nations that have collapsed there must be a slew of examples.

I don't disagree with the premise that this is the way we're heading, I just believe that history provides few if any examples of it happening so it is of itself no guide.

[Sherman Logan]

During war the left side of the bell curve, the welfare class, tends to be killed off disproportionately resulting in a slight but measurable population IQ boost.

Possibly in recent wars, when the officers tend to lead from the rear, except for the most junior officers.

This was not the case in the past, when officers had to demonstrate their own bravery in sight of their men to get them to follow. For instance, during our own Civil War, the higher the rank the greater the fatality rate, with generals having the highest mortality of all on both sides.

Also in most wars through history the death rate was considerably higher among the civilian population than among the soldiery.

Finally, prior to this last century, I'd appreciate you providing some examples of this "welfare class." You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Cronos]

During war the left side of the bell curve, the welfare class, tends to be killed off disproportionately resulting in a slight but measurable population IQ boos

not quite correct w.r.t. the last two world wars..