Skip to comments.ASKING 'PERMISSION' OF OBAMA TO SECEDE? (Look at Constitution in light of popular petition drive)
Posted on 11/15/2012 6:34:40 PM PST by SeekAndFind
The beginning is more than half the whole, the ancient philosopher famously said. The ongoing failure of Americas free institutions is especially due to the failure, in this generation, to understand and perpetuate the faith of the founding. The success American liberty has achieved from that time to this owes much to the fact that the outstanding leaders of the founding generation were willing to articulate the reasonable faith that characterized what they called the genius of the American people.
So in our time it is the apostasy of Americas elites, and their willful disrespect for, and rejection of, the reasonable, decent moral understanding of the people, that engenders and deliberately promotes the failure of liberty. The foundational premise of that understanding is the self-evident truth that the Creator God endowed each and every human being with rights, inherent in the nature of humanity, that human government exists to secure.
A necessary corollary of that understanding is the right of the people to alter or abolish government institutions that abandon this purpose of government, abusively violating the rights just government power exists to defend.
In the aftermath of the recent election, a new secessionist movement has surfaced in which citizens are posting petitions on the White House site requesting permission to peacefully secede from the union. This week a WND article about this movement referenced an article that cited a 2006 letter purporting to be from Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia that said: There is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, one Nation, indivisible.) If accurate, Scalias quotation of words from the Pledge differs significantly from the official text, as set in the U.S. Code at 4 USC 4.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Would it be ok with you if we declared independence from England? Thanks in advance.
There is no “movement” afoot.
Just some grumbling.
Serious folks don’t ask permesso.
Maybe we could sue to overturn the election because overcoming fraud placed an unfair burden on us. LOL
Unfortunately Alan long ago lost any true understanding of the political process in the US. He can claim whatever he wants ( as can the petitioners). There will be no secession even if that is enforced by the military.
Other than destroying the Union and the Constitution there is no “right” to secede.
There IS the right to convene a Constitutional Convention to replace our beloved USC with whatever we want (given the 47% problem do we really want that?) God Bless old T.J.
Texas v. White: learn it, know it, love it.
You don’t ask the government that you’re trying to secede from, for permission. You either win or lose, and since the winner writes the history, the winner will always be right.
Serious folks would move to a state with a small population like Montana or Wyoming, and make serious changes in the attitude of states rights. It would not take that many folks, especially baby boomers who are retired and mobile.
A petition to secede may reflect the wishes of the majority of a state, but it seems like any secession petition would have to come from the state legislature. What if emperor 0bama approves a petition put forth by a bunch of guys, but the state government doesn’t want to secede? Are they in or out?
“There will be no secession even if that is enforced by the military.”
Last time I looked liberals were buying up Montana.
On top of that, lots of Montana and Wyoming are federal lands.
Also there are large reservations that are on the Gov teat.
Texas is almost all privately held land, but even they are not serious, and the Feds inundate us with illegals that we cannot deport.
An Article V Convention (like the Congress) could only propose amendments each of which would not become a part of the Constitution unless ratified by three-fourths of the States. Such a convention (like the Congress) could not replace the Constitution or unilaterally amend the Constitution.
Free Men need not ask permission.
Of course there is a right to secede, it is part and parcel of the right of self-governance. That exists independently of and outside the authority of the United States government, so any court case you cite is irrelevant.
This is not what the FFs did in 1776.
They declared themselves independent, and the document is a blueprint for us today, in its thoughtfulness and brevity.
We should by all means start thinking about what should go in the new edition.
Our grievances are significant and the things we have done to try to get along are numerous.
Such a document would serve to convince us to go ahead with independence, and would explain to many clueless individuals just what we are motivated by.
"Let the facts be submitted to a candid world."
And, by the way, contrary to Scalia, the right to secede is plainly stated in the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
There isn’t enough standing military in this country to enforce a no spitting ordinance in Chicago.
That being said asking Obama for permission to secede is pretty adolescent. If a state legislature were to decide to secede they wouldn’t ask permission.
Secession is totally unnecessary. The Federal govt only has the power that is granted to it by the states. They can use the 10th ammendment anytime and bring the Fed to its knees in a few weeks. Eventually that is what will happen. 20 states working together could easily do it.
This petition website at whitehut, where they promise to respond if you get 25,000 signatures is a joke.
You have to register and provide a valid email, etc.
Does anyone think they give a rats a$$ about any petitions? If you don’t have 50 million signatures, they will laugh.
This website is nothing but part of the vast Obama data mining operation. If you sign a petition for more electric cars,, you will be targeted for grassroots support everytime a global warming bill comes up.
They identify you with the causes you care about, and use that in campaign targeting. Thats all that site is. Don’t give them a thing.
If you are serious about secession, you SHOULD be petitioning your governor and state representatives.
“Other than destroying the Union and the Constitution there is no right to secede”
Of course there is. Thats exactly what the founders did from England. And there is not the slightest sign they meant it to be a suicide pact that when you join, you may never depart. They clearly had the chance to address that, and did not. That has an unmistakable meaning under the 10th amendment.
The constitution discusses that admission of states, and not the departure. Then the 10th amendment says powers not specifically granted to the Feds are left with the states. That CLEARLY includes deciding to leave the union.
As for Texas vs White, thats a joke. It was a case heard 4 years after the civil war when a reconstruction court said there is no right to secession over a financial issue. Big surprise. Thats like a wife with a good job, needing the permission of a drunken, abusive, unemployed, syphilitic husband before she can divorce him.
The very concept that the Feds solely retain the right to decide if you may leave is ludicrous on its face.
All they can do is decide whether or not to launch a ground war against you. But the right to leave is inherent in every writing and act of our founders, including the declaration and the constitution.
Unfortunately Roberts disproved that during the O care decision. The federal government now seems to be able to whatever it wants and there is no existing mechanism to stop them. I do not believe that folks who are busy deciding not to vote because a candidate is not pure enough for them or has a different belief than them can possibly come together to stand against the SEIU let alone the military which has been loaded up with people who will follow orders (see Petraeus and his ridiculous testimony before congress in Sept).
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