Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Immigrants and the GOP-Debunking some talk radio myths
wsj ^ | 11-14-12 | WSJ

Posted on 11/14/2012 4:43:35 AM PST by TurboZamboni

The GOP's Presidential election defeat is opening up a debate in the party, with more than a few voices saying they are willing to rethink their views on immigration. This is good news, which means it's also a good moment to address some of the frequent claims from the anti-immigration right that simply aren't true, especially about Hispanics.

One myth is that Latino voters simply aren't worth pursuing because they're automatic Democrats. Yet Ronald Reagan was so eager to welcome Latinos to the GOP that he described them as "Republicans who don't know it yet."

Recall that between 1996 and 2004 the GOP doubled its percentage of the Hispanic vote to more that 40%, culminating in the re-election of George W. Bush, who won Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico and Nevada—states with fast-growing Hispanic populations that Mitt Romney lost. The notion that Hispanics are "natural" Democrats and not swing voters is belied by this history.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: amnesty; border; broke; democrats; immigration; rinos
even if immigrants all voted republican, would it matter?

we’ll still be bankrupt and going there even faster. it’s a fact that immigrants, legal AND illegal , use social services at a higher rate than others. we can’t even afford to support our born and raised American moocher class, let alone a whole class of poor with anchor babies.

you import more poor(into a welfare state) and you get more poverty.

"Slow path to progress for U.S. immigrants: 43% on welfare after 20 years"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/8/slow-path-to-progress-for-us-immigrants/

http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

Amnesty Will Cost U.S. Taxpayers at Least $2.6 Trillion

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm

1 posted on 11/14/2012 4:43:43 AM PST by TurboZamboni
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Nothing but government growth hormones.


2 posted on 11/14/2012 4:46:07 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
Under Reagan the GOP granted amnesty to over 3 million immigrants. The reward was that still to this day no GOP presidential candidate in the last 40 years has garnered more than 38% of the Hispanic vote.
3 posted on 11/14/2012 4:56:19 AM PST by JIM O
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
Recall that between 1996 and 2004 the GOP doubled its percentage of the Hispanic vote to more that 40%, culminating in the re-election of George W. Bush...

About that...

"By nominating me, my party has made a choice to welcome the new America."

4 posted on 11/14/2012 4:56:31 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

“...with more than a few voices saying they are willing to rethink their views on immigration.”

Conservatives aren’t opposed to immigration.

Conservatives are opposed to illegal immigration.


5 posted on 11/14/2012 5:14:35 AM PST by moovova
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: moovova

If immigration includes welfare, I’m not in favor of that either.

Look to Milton (Open borders and the welfare state)
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWYwOTRlMzVkOGRjNjkyYTIwZjQyZGI5MDY1MTJmYTE=


In case anyone’s still in doubt as to the ultimate goal of the Amnestinians:
“Opening borders with the redistributionist state still intact will result in a larger and more confiscatory government.”


6 posted on 11/14/2012 5:26:56 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Grant a little amnesty, then ok a few abortions, give away some free gov iPads, dis God just a little and what have you got? A SECOND DEMOCRAT PARTY. It isn’t just headed that way, it is partially already there.


7 posted on 11/14/2012 5:31:12 AM PST by ThePatriotsFlag
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

The WSJ being the WSJ: Pro amnesty for illegal immigrants for cheap labor purposes, and it’s despite all of the problems that are connected with illegal immigration! There’s nothing new here with the WSJ!


8 posted on 11/14/2012 5:39:36 AM PST by johnthebaptistmoore (The world continues to be stuck in a "all leftist, all of the time" funk. BUNK THE FUNK!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Does anyone believe the coming amnesty, open borders and fast track to citizenship will be great for the Republican Party and conservatism? Can Republicans convince all these new Americans that we can give them more goodies than Democrats? We have a perfect example of where our immigration policies are taking us, and of which politics will rule as a result of those policies, ...California.

Name one state where large increases in the Hispanic population has bolstered Republican and conservative numbers and advantage. It doesn’t matter what kind of game we talk or how much we give up to appease illegals. Be it 70/30 or 60/40, losing ground is losing ground.


9 posted on 11/14/2012 5:41:01 AM PST by pallis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
U.S. immigration policy should focus on regulating the flow, not ending it, and that means expanding legal ways to come, which is the most effective and humane way to reduce illegal entries.

Sure, and we can reduce all crimes by simply making the crime no longer a crime, or just giving a much higher number of folks what they want so the don't have to commit a crime to get it. Just have a day per week where anyone can get anything they want from a retail store without paying. That'll probably eliminate shoplifting and all sorts of theft.

And if the WSJ wanted to provide some useful data about how illegals would vote, they could survey Latinos who are established and whose families have been in the US for many years, and then survey those recent arrivals and those who are first and second generation.

I think you'll find some very diffent party preferences between recent arrivals and established families, and that any amnestied illegals would go 80%+ for the Dims.

The WSJ is not an objective voice on this issue, but a tool of businesess who want a continuous supply of cheap labor.

10 posted on 11/14/2012 6:03:51 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

What an incredibly bad editorial. For the WSJ to write something so illogical it must be duplicity IMO.

Illegal immigrants rely on welfare more than American citizens do—as do their offspring generations later. And a high-water mark for GOP voting is 40%, so that means they are natural Republicans?

Illegal immigrants naturally enter the country most aggressively in times of low employment. In those times, they both suppress wages of the native low-skill workers with whom they compete and retard the technological advance of those industries that most frequently hire them.

Then, when the downturn comes, they unquestionably compete with low-skill citizens for the opportunity to hold any job at all, even though the inflow of illegals also slows for the time and some may even return home.


11 posted on 11/14/2012 6:17:18 AM PST by 9YearLurker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JIM O

Hispanic culture teaches that the government exists to reward the winners and punish the losers. Read “the other path” by Hernando de Soto. They oppose corruption until they get into power and then use corruption when they get into power.

I don’t care how much they claim to hate abortion, they love graft and governmental abuse more. What’s worse, our education system teaches them that their system is good and the SEIU gives them the political power to import their ideas to the United States. These are the political LOSERS from their home countries. Unable to implement corruption for themselves in their home countries, they’ve come here to continue their practices.

The ONLY answer is to demonstrate that we are A NATION OF LAWS. If you violate those laws you will pay the consequences. If we do not enforce the laws, they say, “See. Your country is just like ours. The political winners can change or ignore laws. You are no better.”

Read The Other Path and see what happens when the illegal bus drivers take over power. They give amnesty to themselves and then make anyone who dares compete with them suffer the same fate they opposed for themselves.


12 posted on 11/14/2012 6:20:30 AM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Thank you...great article. I couldn’t agree more with you/Rector/Friedman.


13 posted on 11/14/2012 6:22:29 AM PST by moovova
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

I’m all for being optimistic, but we have to be constrained by realism. If you are going to tout that Dubya got 40% of the hispanic vote, then you must also note that he lost 60% of it! Therefore, for every 10 hispanic immigrants we admit, even under the best recent conditions, we are ending up with a net loss of 2 votes.


14 posted on 11/14/2012 6:25:50 AM PST by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

“Ronald Reagan was so eager to welcome Latinos to the GOP that he described them as ‘Republicans who don’t know it yet.’”

And apparently they still don’t know it. Nor will they ever, because they overwhelmingly have big government in their DNA.

How about this quote, not mentioned by the WSJ for some reason: “The amnesty was the worst mistake of my presidency.”


15 posted on 11/14/2012 6:25:56 AM PST by SharpRightTurn ( White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

The WSJ has always pimped for illegals. Business likes the cheap illegal labor, while leaving us dumb taxpayers to pick up the tab for their housing, food stamps, education, illegal and uninsured driving, ad nauseum.

The hell with that crap. And screw the WSJ.


16 posted on 11/14/2012 6:30:38 AM PST by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni

Today’s immigrants for the most part don’t come for ideological reasons. They are not fleeing oppression nor aspiring to the American ideal. Their motives are purely economic.

In such a scenario the party that goes around handing out cash will win everytime.


17 posted on 11/14/2012 7:03:03 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JIM O
What that means is that for every Republican vote we might get, the Democrats get 1 and 1/2 vote.

Doesn't sound like a good deal at all.

18 posted on 11/14/2012 7:05:42 AM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
That's what they said about the Italians and Greeks and, of course, it was true ~ millions of them also self-deported once they'd gotten some bucks together and purchased firearms useful back home.

Earlier Russian and Ukrainian Jews and Poles were similarly accused of being interested only in money, or import/export.

Keeps going that way until we get back to the English ~ yup, same old thing ~ really.

The only pure ideological immigrants we ever received were the Scots and the Sa'ami! Actually we got about 90% of each type, and then, of coure, there are the Irish, Welsh, Manx, Bretons and Galicians ~ about 90% of them as well ~ but they came for the money I am sure ~ right?

19 posted on 11/14/2012 7:10:28 AM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog

I wonder, did Krauthammer and the rest of the Good Old Panderers pushing for amnesty give their kids a pony every time they stomped their feet and said “I hate you”?


20 posted on 11/14/2012 7:50:11 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Will88
Just have a day per week where anyone can get anything they want from a retail store without paying.

got those: "flash mobs"

21 posted on 11/14/2012 7:52:19 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
got those: "flash mobs"

And they could include the flash mobs' shopping choices in retail sales and show improvements in the overall economy. So many things can be improved if we could just get with the right point-of-view.

22 posted on 11/14/2012 8:28:11 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: moovova
Conservatives aren’t opposed to immigration.

Conservatives are opposed to illegal immigration.<<

BINGO!.....and now as a Conservative that can "compromise" I'm gonna be mighty damned generous with this offer seeing how you've already broken the law!....

1. If you're “illegal” and have been here over 5 yrs, can speak somewhat fluent English and not drawn welfare or any govt assistance and not had any convictions, We'll consider you for AMNASTY..

2.ALL OTHERS....SEE YA!

23 posted on 11/14/2012 10:50:54 AM PST by M-cubed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: moovova

I’m opposed to immigration, meaning limiting it to a few 10s of thousands for little individual and administrative things, but ending the goal of reaching a billion and 2 billion in population, as we are doing currently.


24 posted on 11/14/2012 1:54:23 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SharpRightTurn; sickoflibs; DoughtyOne; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; Liz; AuntB
“Ronald Reagan was so eager to welcome Latinos to the GOP that he described them as ‘Republicans who don’t know it yet.’” And apparently they still don’t know it. Nor will they ever, because they overwhelmingly have big government in their DNA. How about this quote, not mentioned by the WSJ for some reason: “The amnesty was the worst mistake of my presidency.”

You got that right! Reagan was right about many things, but amnesty was a mistake.

25 posted on 11/16/2012 3:50:42 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; SharpRightTurn; DoughtyOne; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; ..
RE :”Ronald Reagan was so eager to welcome Latinos to the GOP that he described them as ‘Republicans who don’t know it yet.’” And apparently they still don’t know it. Nor will they ever, because they overwhelmingly have big government in their DNA. How about this quote, not mentioned by the WSJ for some reason: “The amnesty was the worst mistake of my presidency.”......
You got that right! Reagan was right about many things, but amnesty was a mistake.”

Jeeze, Reagan was 30 years ago. A few things have changed since then. He was not Moses giving us the Ten Commandments.

Back to the present.
Creating lots more Hispanic voters (amnesty) in an attempt to get SOME OF the CURRENT Hispanic voters to vote R when they now vote D is putting the cart BEFORE the Horse.
It is a big gamble that might just create lots more Dem voters, as the last amnesty eventually did.

Instead they (R party)should figure out how to get current Hispanic voters to vote Republican without Handouts before they create any new ones.
Here's a clue. Romney was not going to do that, or convert anyone. No ideas from McCain or Grahmnesty either.

26 posted on 11/16/2012 5:22:31 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; AuntB; Tennessee Nana

And the stupidest-—when Karl Rove said illegals would taste it and become so enamored of freedom that they’d embrace America and become model US citizens in every way.


27 posted on 11/16/2012 5:22:45 AM PST by Liz ("Come quickly, I'm tasting the stars," Dom Perignon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

“Jeeze, Reagan was 30 years ago. A few things have changed since then. He was not Moses giving us the Ten Commandments.”

You may have missed the gist of my post. Quotes from the original article were praising Reagan for backing amnesty. My point was that Reagan came to regret it. It is foolish not to learn the lessons of the past, even if it was 30 years ago, in making current policy. An amnesty will not be coupled with border security and an end to illegal immigration because neither major party wants to end mass immigration. And the majority of third world immigrants are not likely to vote for liberty, individual responsibility, and smaller government.

“Instead they (R party)should figure out how to get current Hispanic voters to vote Republican without Handouts before they create any new ones. Here’s a clue.”

O.K., what’s the clue on how to get current Hispanic voters to vote Republican without handouts?


28 posted on 11/16/2012 6:26:34 AM PST by SharpRightTurn ( White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: SharpRightTurn
RE :Jeeze, Reagan was 30 years ago. A few things have changed since then. He was not Moses giving us the Ten Commandments.”
....
You may have missed the gist of my post. Quotes from the original article were praising Reagan for backing amnesty. My point was that Reagan came to regret it.”

Interpret my comment as critical of those comments claiming we must do amnesty because Ron did. Ron also reformed SS raising those taxes and taxing SS creating a phony SS trust fund that he and all the others just spent. As I said he was not Moses he was human.

29 posted on 11/16/2012 6:40:06 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: johnthebaptistmoore; TurboZamboni; All

” The WSJ being the WSJ: Pro amnesty for illegal immigrants for cheap labor purposes, and it’s despite all of the problems that are connected with illegal immigration! There’s nothing new here with the WSJ!”

The WSJ is merely the mouthpiece for the open-borders (Chamber of Commerce)

The WSJ is a joke on this issue.


30 posted on 11/16/2012 7:26:19 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker ((God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: moovova; Liz; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Conservatives are opposed to illegal immigration.
______________________________________

Theres no such thing...

youre either an immigrant or youre not...

Conservatives are opposed to illegal aliens ...

People born in another country who come here are either legal aliens with an Alien Registration Card (green card) or they are illegal aliens...

Changing the language is just a sneaky way to give psuedo AMNESTY to 30 MILLION illegal aliens...

How often have you read headlines about “immigrants” without a clarifying word in front ???

Yeah its like that

I*llegal aliens tossed in with REAL immigrants...

Illegal aliens have nothing to do with IMMIGRATION...

Illegal aliens dont immigrate...

Illegal aliens break our sovereign laws by entering our country without PRIOR permission...

Immigrants do everything necessary required by our governnment PRIOR to entering...

They jump through every hoop...

Illegal aliens just jump over the fence...


31 posted on 11/16/2012 7:28:42 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: sickoflibs

“Interpret my comment as critical of those comments claiming we must do amnesty because Ron did. Ron also reformed SS raising those taxes and taxing SS creating a phony SS trust fund that he and all the others just spent. As I said he was not Moses he was human.”

Agreed.


32 posted on 11/16/2012 7:32:27 AM PST by SharpRightTurn ( White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
My Polish and Italian ancestors came her for a better economic position, nothing more, nothing less. This was the case of 90% of all immigrants, possibly more. The belief of many on this site that it was to "become American" is revisionist WW II era nonsense.

American culture is a Borg culture: you will be assimilated, albeit not likely in the Ward and June Cleaver mould.

33 posted on 11/16/2012 7:34:50 AM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: TurboZamboni
Mark Levin talked about the WSJ's position on immigration just the other day. He cited this quote from 1984:

"If Washington still wants to 'do something' about immigration, we propose a five-word constitutional amendment: There shall be open borders."

34 posted on 11/16/2012 7:40:07 AM PST by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

just one time I’d like one of these insufferable pro-amnesty elite jackasses like Rove, Lindsey, John McCain, Krauthammer or the whole damn editorial board of the Wall Street Journal to come down to Texas and spend a month in a town that has been taken over by illegals ....then they can tell me that they are going to convert these people to republican voter...my god what idiocy

The only time these idiots have ever seen an illegal is working at a menial job to serve them food or cut their lawn....they don’t live surrounded by them and there is a damn big difference


35 posted on 11/16/2012 7:47:41 AM PST by thestob (THESE are the times that try men's souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Flag_This

Like Milton Friedman stated:

open border + welfare state= bankrupt

how’s CA doing again?


36 posted on 11/16/2012 8:06:18 AM PST by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana; moovova; Liz; stephenjohnbanker
youre either an immigrant or youre not...

Unfortunately, for many years, "our" government, including the courts, has been treating anybody who sneaks in as an "immigrant." There is a difference between the law as written and the law as practiced. "Our" government is not acting in good faith.

37 posted on 11/16/2012 1:57:27 PM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Tennessee Nana; moovova; Liz; DoughtyOne

Don’t worry....Hannity and Boehner will get amnesty passed. Then we won’t have to worry about whether we have a RINO running for POTUS again, because we can’t win anyway.


38 posted on 11/16/2012 2:11:47 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: thestob; All

” just one time I’d like one of these insufferable pro-amnesty elite jackasses like Rove, Lindsey, John McCain, Krauthammer or the whole damn editorial board of the Wall Street Journal to come down to Texas and spend a month in a town that has been taken over by illegals “

Add Hannity and Boehner to the list.


39 posted on 11/16/2012 2:13:44 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Tennessee Nana; Liz; stephenjohnbanker

“immigrant vs alien”

Thank you. Alien it is.


40 posted on 11/16/2012 2:29:07 PM PST by moovova
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: stephenjohnbanker

Hannity is such a tool...


41 posted on 11/16/2012 4:39:21 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and 48 million Americans still didn't have power.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson