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Republicans Should Pretend It's Romney's First Day And Act On China
Campaign for America's Future ^ | November 7, 2012 | Dave Johnson

Posted on 11/13/2012 2:00:40 PM PST by DannyTN

Romney promised that he would act on China's currency manipulation "on his first day." So Republicans can pretend Romney won, and actually act on China's currency manipulation! If they would actually do what they promised to do we could get a lot a lot of "job creation" going on. Or will they continue to obstruct?

China continues to manipulate its currency. It has been getting better but not fast enough. This manipulation keeps the prices of things made in China lower than they should be -- even before taking into account all of the other trade cheating China has been doing. And that means that jobs, factories, industries and big chunks of our economy continue to move to China. Look at what happened with Sensata the day before the election.

For various non-trade reasons -- Obama needs China's help with Korea, etc. -- the President has resisted declaring China to be a currency manipulator. Action by Congress to push this forward strengthens the President's hand in getting something done on this, and in the end could just get it done outside of the administration. So to accomplish this there is a bill to act on China's currency manipulation.

The "China Currency Bill" has passed the Senate but is stalled in the House by Republican leadership. Speaker Boehner is keeping the bill from coming up for a vote. It could come to the floor and pass if just a few of the 60+ Republican cosponsors would actually cosponsor the bill be signing a "discharge petition" to bring it up for a vote.

The people want this. Polls overwhelmingly showed that the public "gets it" about China and trade and what is happening to all the jobs and factories and industries. This polling was why Romney campaigned for this. And this was a democracy election -- the people made it very clear what they want to happen.

Senator Sherrod Brown of Ohio recently pushed to have this bill revived and voted on in the House, and now the voters have given their stamp of approval by reelecting Brown. Across the board the public has made it clear that it is time to act. Republicans should pretend it is Romney's "first day" and act on Chinese currency manipulation -- like he promised they would do.

The election is over, it is time for action, not more obstruction.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: tariff; trade
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1 posted on 11/13/2012 2:00:50 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Who cares about China’s currency manipulation? I don’t. If they want to make their goods cheaper for us then I am OK with that.


2 posted on 11/13/2012 2:04:00 PM PST by impimp
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To: DannyTN

Us going after China for currency manipulation is like Obama criticizing Romney for socializing healthcare.


3 posted on 11/13/2012 2:06:20 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

Isn’t China’s currency manipulation just to mirror ours. When we deflate....they deflate?


4 posted on 11/13/2012 2:09:04 PM PST by garyb
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To: DannyTN

Right about now, Boehner is trying to figure out how to give Obama everything he wants.....you know, like amnesty, and everything else.


5 posted on 11/13/2012 2:10:38 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker ((God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.))
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To: impimp

I’m all for cheap goods, until it puts American’s out of work.
Free trade with low wage countries has devastated our industries. It’s time to wise up.

Cheap goods aren’t necessarily cheap when you add the cost of carrying unemployed Americans and all the associated lost tax revenues. In fact, they can be quite expensive.


6 posted on 11/13/2012 2:12:25 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Tublecane; garyb
Actually, I think the real issue is the wage differential not the currency manipulation.

That's something that wasn't addressed in the debates except for that brief moment when the rat moderator raised the question about wage differentials that no one answered.

Free trade with low wage countries is unwise when you're at 25% unemployment.

7 posted on 11/13/2012 2:17:07 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Not going to happen. The Republicans in CONgress are going to roll over and play dead at the feet of King Obama and his minions in CONGress.

Repubs are running scared.


8 posted on 11/13/2012 2:17:12 PM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: DannyTN; All
(And then tomorrow we can pretend it's Day Two of Romney's Reign...and take on ObamaCare? With RomneyCare as a "kind" of "alternative")
9 posted on 11/13/2012 2:22:07 PM PST by Colofornian (“...those outside the Church who say Lds do not believe in the traditional Christ. No I don't."-GH)
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To: DannyTN; All

I say we anticipate the quick $22 Trillion debt that Obama will drive it up to...then have a "yard sale" and allow China to get a good chunk of its "loans" back from the U.S. by buying up all the non-private land in ALL of the blue states.

I mean, hey, the socialist-communists should feel pretty good by being in an "active" partnership with their Asian Komrades!

10 posted on 11/13/2012 2:25:46 PM PST by Colofornian (“...those outside the Church who say Lds do not believe in the traditional Christ. No I don't."-GH)
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To: DannyTN

People (i.e. FDR) used the same arguments you are giving now in the 1930’s and that is why in America the depression is called the Great Depression instead of simply the depression.

Google “Blue eagle” and research protectionism and the economy of the 1930s. I think that the policies you endorse would hurt Americans and raise unemployment. I firmly believe that it is useful to learn from history.


11 posted on 11/13/2012 2:29:03 PM PST by impimp
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To: DannyTN
It's not a question of whether China manipulates its currency (it does), or whether it can be punished for doing so (it can). It's the assumption that jobs would shift here if China is punished that is erroneous.
12 posted on 11/13/2012 2:33:43 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
"It's not a question of whether China manipulates its currency (it does), or whether it can be punished for doing so (it can). It's the assumption that jobs would shift here if China is punished that is erroneous. "

Depends on how we do it. If we target China alone, most of the jobs will simply shift to another low wage country. But if we target a class of goods that China makes and raise the import tariff high enough, they will indeed shift back here.

If we don't raise the tariffs high enough, the jobs won't shift back, but the Chinese profit will be reduced and U.S. Gov't revenues will increase. That alone would be a positive.

13 posted on 11/13/2012 2:41:00 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
Ah, good idea! Let's start a trade war!

Also, China's Yuan is pegged to the dollar...

To fix the situation, we should be advocating market-based interest rates. Our lack of capital and production should be blamed on Fed policy and not Chinese mercantilism.

Economic reality indicates that prices need to decline which includes allowing wages to fall. It's about competitiveness and real economic growth.

Interest rates will never come up due to our unsustainable debt. So, economic policies against China will just distract us from the real problems.

14 posted on 11/13/2012 2:43:34 PM PST by Cheap_Hessian (I am the Grim FReeper.)
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To: DannyTN

Raising my taxes is a “positive.” That’s all I needed to hear. God Bless our federal government! Raise my taxes high enough and quickly enough to bring these jobs back!


15 posted on 11/13/2012 2:46:13 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: impimp
"People (i.e. FDR) used the same arguments you are giving now in the 1930’s and that is why in America the depression is called the Great Depression instead of simply the depression."

FDR didn't take office until 1933, the Great Depression began in 1929. What's more the Smoot Hawley tariff didn't go into effect until Jun - 1930 long after the Great Depression was well under way.

Going into the Great Depression, imports were 4% of GNP, and exports were 5% of GNP. There is no way international trade caused the Great depression, a drop in GNP of 40%. The trade numbers are simply not big enough. (There was an international banking scare that did affect the U.S. market and helped generate the Great Depression, but that's an entirely different issue than Tariffs and trade.)

Now imports are 16% of GNP. And unemployment is 25%.

16 posted on 11/13/2012 2:47:55 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: 1rudeboy
Bring the jobs back to America and Government revenues go up dramatically and government outlays fall.

If you really want to avoid tax increases, you should be focused on getting America's economy going again instead of trying to balance the budget while leaving the structural issues with the economy that caused this mess in place.

17 posted on 11/13/2012 2:52:49 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: 1rudeboy

Besides, I think there is a good argument that China will pay more of those taxes than you will.

It depends on whether the Chinese can raise prices to us and not see the jobs shift back to us. If they can’t raise prices, they’ll pay the tariff and simply have less profit.

Which is okay by me, because the Chinese government was going to take 90% of the profit and buy U.S. Debt with it, or worse U.S. firms that they can dismantle and ship to China. So U.S. Gov’t revenues go up, Communist Chinese gov’t revenues go down.


18 posted on 11/13/2012 2:57:29 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Cheap_Hessian
"Ah, good idea! Let's start a trade war!"

We've been in a trade war. And we have refused to fight back and now have 25% unemployment to show for it.

Currency manipulation is not the real issue. It's the whole idea that trade with low wage countries is always a good idea, regardless of how high your own country's unemployment is.

19 posted on 11/13/2012 3:00:27 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
Bring the jobs back to America and Government revenues go up dramatically and government outlays fall.

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

20 posted on 11/13/2012 3:02:33 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DannyTN

You’re right about the things I identified as having not caused the Great Depression. I never said they did. They extended, as opposed to having starting, the depression. Just as what you are proposing would extend the depression that began under Bush.


21 posted on 11/13/2012 3:05:54 PM PST by impimp
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To: DannyTN

Never happen. the House is run by a wimpy republican liberal appeaser.


22 posted on 11/13/2012 3:09:10 PM PST by chainsaw ("Two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by Obama")
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To: DannyTN

Well, I don’t see how labeling China as a manipulator is going to solve anything. We need to raise interest rates to create incentives for capital creation and production. A more liquid labor market would also be beneficial.


23 posted on 11/13/2012 3:13:34 PM PST by Cheap_Hessian (I am the Grim FReeper.)
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To: 1rudeboy
"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

I don't see how your comment applies. We aren't borrowing anything in this scenario. In fact we're either getting Gov't revenues from tariffs immediately. Or we're employing Americans, which means lots of Gov't revenues and less safety net outlays.

We're gladly paying the Chinese Tuesday for a cheap low quality burger today. And it needs to stop now.

24 posted on 11/13/2012 3:14:00 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
You are promising me that the federal government, in its infinite wisdom and noble intentions, will increase government revenue by raising taxes on the private sector.

You are arguing that I should give you the hamburger today, and that you will pay me later.

25 posted on 11/13/2012 3:17:42 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Cheap_Hessian
"Well, I don’t see how labeling China as a manipulator is going to solve anything. We need to raise interest rates to create incentives for capital creation and production. A more liquid labor market would also be beneficial."

We don't need to raise interest rates with 25% unemployment. The incentive for capital creation isn't coming from an increased interest rate, it's coming from an increase market opportunity. And with the unwise trade rules we've implemented, the market opportunity is overseas not here.

But I agree, labeling China as a manipulator is not really the solution. It allows us to impose a tariff, which is a start, but it misses the real issue. The real issue is that we don't need to be pursuing free trade with low wage countries unless we are at full employment.

26 posted on 11/13/2012 3:17:53 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: 1rudeboy

A tariff is an easy tax to avoid. Didn’t your Chinese handlers explain that to you?


27 posted on 11/13/2012 3:18:15 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
A tariff is an easy tax to avoid.

Economics Myth #19, written by an illiterate.

28 posted on 11/13/2012 3:21:14 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
"You are promising me that the federal government, in its infinite wisdom and noble intentions, will increase government revenue by raising taxes on the private sector."

Not on the private sector, on imports. That's not a promise it's a definition of a tariff. Gov't revenues will go up immediately and then as the jobs shift back here, tariff revenues will fall but income taxes will dwarf the tariff revenues.

That's not a promise to pay later. That has an immediate positive impact on our nation's health.

But I see your point. It's all about YOU and all about right now. Nevermind your fellow American or the nation's health. You might have to pay a higher amount today for imports, if the Chinese don't absorb the cost. And today you're not having to currently pay for the unemployed, because the nation is borrowing from China to do that. So yeah, I guess I am promising that you'll benefit in the future by having less debt to pay off by paying more for imports now. But only because the true cost of our unemployed today is buffered by ever expanding government debt. If it wasn't for that buffer, you'd see an immediate improvement from import tariffs.

29 posted on 11/13/2012 3:27:11 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

I disagree. If we raise interest rates, we can finally kill wasteful consumer and government spending. We need increased savings for productive asset creation, and we also need prices and wages to fall.

However, this whole argument is moot. We won’t be able to rely on Chinese imports much longer anyway, due to our ongoing inflation. The unemployment situation will not be solved until we have a real economic recovery.


30 posted on 11/13/2012 3:40:21 PM PST by Cheap_Hessian (I am the Grim FReeper.)
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To: DannyTN
Yup, just selfish: I failed to grasp right away how you, and the federal government, can solve our country's economic ills by raising my taxes, whether on an import I buy or indirectly when the import's domestic competitor raises its own price as a result.*

_____
*Economic Myth #19 explained

31 posted on 11/13/2012 3:42:32 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DannyTN

I could go along with revenue raising tariffs, but protective tariffs just hurts overall competitiveness.


32 posted on 11/13/2012 3:42:53 PM PST by Cheap_Hessian (I am the Grim FReeper.)
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To: impimp

Amazing I’ve never heard of anyone wanting to sanction America for manipulating their currency; we do the same thing by debasing our currency (QE 1,2...).


33 posted on 11/13/2012 3:46:52 PM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: 1rudeboy

That’s the key point. The federal government cannot pick winners and losers which includes our manufacturing sector. Our manufactures need to operate in a better economic climate through lower taxes, deregulation, and a more liquid labor market.

Protectionism squashes innovation, frugality, and creativity.


34 posted on 11/13/2012 3:53:30 PM PST by Cheap_Hessian (I am the Grim FReeper.)
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To: Idaho_Cowboy

Well said.

It is noteworthy that Romney descended to the level of criticizing China for currency manipulation.

I appreciate China making things cheaper for me. That is conservative common sense.


35 posted on 11/13/2012 3:56:38 PM PST by impimp
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To: Cheap_Hessian

These threads are a hoot. For daring to suggest that “there is no such thing as a free lunch,” one is called selfish and unpatriotic.


36 posted on 11/13/2012 4:02:23 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Our economic policies are unsustainable, and I doubt more than 5% of Americans realize this.


37 posted on 11/13/2012 4:17:12 PM PST by Cheap_Hessian (I am the Grim FReeper.)
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To: 1rudeboy
I failed to grasp right away how you, and the federal government, can solve our country's economic ills by raising my taxes, whether on an import I buy or indirectly when the import's domestic competitor raises its own price as a result.*

Wait one minute!

Next you'll claim that a 100% tariff on imported oil will raise the cost of our domestic oil.

Learn some economics, sheesh.

38 posted on 11/13/2012 4:52:10 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Who buys crude oil by the barrel, anyway? Don’t want to pay the tax, don’t buy oil. Problem solved.


39 posted on 11/13/2012 4:55:59 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

I should have realized that......


40 posted on 11/13/2012 5:02:15 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Cheap_Hessian
"If we raise interest rates, we can finally kill wasteful consumer and government spending."

The only way to kill wasteful government spending is to elect people of good character. Irresponsible politicians won't care what the interest rate is or even if they have to promise that your children will pay it back in gold.

I'm not sure I'd consider consumer spending "wasteful" especially what is left of consumer spending after the last few years. And I don't think it's something you want to kill either. When the economy is at full employment, then you can let interest rates rise. Letting them rise now with 25% unemployment would only result in more personal, business and government bankruptcies. It would be ridiculous.

"We need increased savings for productive asset creation, and we also need prices and wages to fall."

There's plenty of cash sitting on the sidelines looking for safe investments. We need investment opportunities and that's only going to come from getting people employed again. And we don't need prices and wages to fall. We don't want to be China. Free trade with China is making us like China. That's what we need to reverse.

We don't need to be competitive to sell to the Chinese. They aren't going to buy from us anyway. There is only one buyer and that is Americans. So why are we letting Chinese sellers compete against Americans, when Americans are the only ones buying.

"We won’t be able to rely on Chinese imports much longer anyway, due to our ongoing inflation."

We'd have to see a lot more inflation than we are seeing to make a dent in the wage differential with China. They aren't going away anytime soon, unless we make them go away.

"The unemployment situation will not be solved until we have a real economic recovery. "

Which we won't have because we are too busy exporting our remaining jobs overseas. Stop the exporting, bring the jobs back to America and we will have a real economic recovery. Jobs ARE the recovery.

41 posted on 11/13/2012 5:22:50 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: 1rudeboy

Think of the tariff as a “Buy American” tax. Either Buy American and put your fellow countrymen to work or either you or China is going to have to pay the tariff.


42 posted on 11/13/2012 5:30:23 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
Either Buy American and put your fellow countrymen to work or either you or China is going to have to pay the tariff.

Tariffs are like taxes.

The end-user pays the tariff. Just as the end-user pays the tax.

In order to "put our fellow countryman to workj", he must produce a product of similar quality at a lower price, or of higher quality at the same price.

Until then, a tariff is simply another tax on the American consumer.

43 posted on 11/13/2012 5:34:55 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Competition between domestic competitors will keep prices low.
The domestic competitor will only raise it’s price if it’s the only domestic competitor.


44 posted on 11/13/2012 5:34:55 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
Again, you fail to recognize that we all pay under your plan, whether we buy American or not. So the questions become: 1. how much more do you want us to pay in order to buy American or otherwise, and 2. how will this money, and your coercive taking of it out of our pockets create prosperity?
45 posted on 11/13/2012 5:37:05 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DannyTN

Government-protected industries compete with each other to keep prices low? You really are breaking new ground in economic theory.


46 posted on 11/13/2012 5:38:32 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: DannyTN

Well said!

Buy American.

And tax foreign.


47 posted on 11/13/2012 5:40:00 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: impimp
"It is noteworthy that Romney descended to the level of criticizing China for currency manipulation."

Romney didn't get it at all. He tapped into a little of the anti-Chinese sentiment and got a bump in the polls as a result, but then he went on and explained that he'd only use the threat of tariffs to get China to play fair with intellectual property rules and currency manipulation.

Romney didn't get that the real issue is the wage differential that is killing our industries. Neither does Obama. Surprisingly the rat Moderator Candy Crowley asked about wages after Romney brought up China, but neither candidate responded to her. Obama said he wanted high paying jobs instead of low paying jobs, a stupid sentiment when 25% have no job at all. And Romney just repeated, Government doesn't create jobs.

48 posted on 11/13/2012 5:47:41 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

What you mean is, tax Americans to buy American.


49 posted on 11/13/2012 5:48:04 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: okie01
"Tariffs are like taxes. The end-user pays the tariff. Just as the end-user pays the tax."

No, tariffs are not like taxes because only the imports are taxed. Therefore a couple of things can happen.

The best result though, is that production moves back to the U.S. because then Americans are earning salaries, paying income taxes, and spending money in the American market. And none of that is happening, when Americans are unemployed.

50 posted on 11/13/2012 6:01:35 PM PST by DannyTN
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