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Dominique Ludvigson: Marriage debate: Reason to worry about free speech and religious freedom
St. Paul Pioneer Press ^ | 10/29/12 | Dominique Ludvigson

Posted on 10/30/2012 4:03:12 AM PDT by rhema

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1 posted on 10/30/2012 4:03:22 AM PDT by rhema
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To: rhema

Diversity is good — just so long as you share all of the official views, vote in the proper fashion, and do not say anything which deviates from the official party line. As long as you follow those rules, you can be as diverse as you want to be.


2 posted on 10/30/2012 4:07:21 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
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To: rhema

Signing a petition to put a referendum on the ballot? Silly person, the State knows so much better than the People! The People are too stupid to decide on their own. /sarcasm


3 posted on 10/30/2012 4:15:20 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (The Democratic Party is the operational wing of CPUSA.)
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To: All

Now people don’t often tie things together and thus we end up with unintended consequences.

Let’s hit the wayback machine to the 1960s. The country decides that racism must be stomped out, and that pretty much all means, constitutional or otherwise are justified. Hence we get laws and SC decisions which pretty much toss the concept of freedom of assembly out the window. Let me be clear that I have no objection to government functions and regulations being fully colorblind. It is when the law gets applied in a broad swath across private individuals that I have a beef.

Can there be a black students organization? Yes. Can there be a white students organization? No.

Do I have to be careful of the race(later expanded to sex, disability status, and nowadays sexual preference) of the person I hire or fire? Yes.

Now I’ll be honest, I don’t really care what the light in the loafer crowd does on their own time. I do, however strongly object to the concept that everyone has to accept, nay, like it and have that enforced by law. If I were Catholic and ran a bed and breakfast, I should be able to deny business to a gay wedding reception. It’s my damned property. However that won’t fly anymore.

In the eternal (and extremely misguided) quest for fairness any rights which get in the way are stomped. Freedom religion? Bah. Freedom of speech? Bah. Freedom of Assembly? Bah. Mere obstacles to be overcome and disregarded.

People don’t bother to weigh the rights of people affected by changed. Sure, an alleged right to marriage is denied gays (find me that right in the constitution while we’re at it), so to ‘restore’ that right we stomp the rights of a whole lot of other people for the sake of fairness. Bollocks.

Last survey I saw said gays were around 3% of the population. Catholics and Evangelicals are close to 50% (very rough estimate). Assume even that we take out the smorgasbord Catholics, we still have over 10x as many people getting their right to assembly, religion, and speech stomped on as the people we’re supposed to be helping. That’s not particularly ‘fair’ now it is?


4 posted on 10/30/2012 4:54:23 AM PDT by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: drbuzzard

Well said. Gays, contrary their assertions, don’t just get married and sit in their little houses and never bother anybody.


5 posted on 10/30/2012 5:06:26 AM PDT by heye2monn (A)
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To: rhema

Fascists in academia at work.


6 posted on 10/30/2012 5:09:17 AM PDT by Adder (No Mo BO)
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To: rhema

I never realised the deaf were so fond of Homosexuals.

Maybe many really are deaf-———and dumb.

yeah I know I will get burned for that one .


7 posted on 10/30/2012 5:30:22 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: rhema

I hope this opened McCaskill’s eyes to the true nature of homosexuality and the Leftists who support it. Maybe she’ll become a conservative as a result?


8 posted on 10/30/2012 5:44:52 AM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: drbuzzard
Drbuzzard,

I agree with your post, but don't think that it's even as innocuous as you are perceiving it. This is not a quest for “fairness”. These people are mentally ill, and this is an expression of it. They are “going after” marriage because attacking others is their only joy in life. They are not “gay”. They are miserable and driven to force their misery on others.

Democrats join in this “quest” precisely to achieve the loss of liberty you have observed.

9 posted on 10/30/2012 5:45:13 AM PDT by Empire_of_Liberty
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To: Venturer

Hint: look at conditions in the state-run boarding schools for deaf children.


10 posted on 10/30/2012 5:45:45 AM PDT by I Shall Endure
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To: rhema

There have been some strange doings at Gallaudet. One year the students learned that their new president, though he knew sign language, was not deaf. There were mass protests that could be seen but barely heard as the protesting students furiously signed their outrage accompanied by sobs, moans, & facial histrionics. The administration caved and nominated a deaf-correct president.


11 posted on 10/30/2012 6:02:03 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("Free speech is more important than Islam.")
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To: Empire_of_Liberty

You may well be right for a lot of people, but I know quite a few otherwise rational people who fall for the fairness argument. They don’t understand the costs involved to impose that ‘fairness’.

Fairness, for no reason that I understand, is a very compelling argument for a lot of people. They don’t get that life isn’t fair, and that trying to modify reality to change that will cause more damage than they can understand.


12 posted on 10/30/2012 7:08:47 AM PDT by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: drbuzzard

EXCELLENT response.


13 posted on 10/30/2012 7:18:51 AM PDT by kitkat
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To: elcid1970

I work at a community college with a big sign language program. I thus work with more deaf people than Joe average.

I have to say, they really are a strange lot. They have an insular community and really don’t have much use for outsiders. They are also extremely entitled. They simply have an awful attitude out of the box. When you work with a new deaf person, they start with a massive chip on their shoulder, and expect to be able to get away with anything. Some eventually come around, but I don’t find the education enjoyable.

There are some odd things about their educational experience that aren’t common knowledge. For example ASL and English are not the same thing by any means. They work completely differently. Deaf people are taught in ASL and English is a second language and to be blunt, doesn’t seem to be considered of much importance. Professional deaf people that I have worked with are almost illiterate in English. Grammar, spelling, and syntax are all extremely shabby.

I imagine the students at Gallaudet didn’t want an outsider because they might get exposed to real world standards.


14 posted on 10/30/2012 7:39:23 AM PDT by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: Venturer

The deaf are allied with the homosexuals as part of a broad pan-leftist “minority” coalition.


15 posted on 10/30/2012 7:42:20 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: drbuzzard

Anyone who even uses the term “fairness” - let alone falling for the so-called argument is an imbecile. The very word is subjective, and is being used manipulately. Just like “nice” and “good” and a host of other words that can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean, which is, “what I say is fair, nice, good, how I define it.”
Those words, and that device, are especially pernicious because they are used to suppress dissent - because if you disagree with the person touting fairness, etc, you are ipso facto unfair, not nice, and bad.
This is kindergarten reasoning, and the fact that it can enter adult discourse is the symptom of the degeneration of our society.


16 posted on 10/30/2012 7:58:38 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: drbuzzard

Anyone who even uses the term “fairness” - let alone falling for the so-called argument is an imbecile. The very word is subjective, and is being used manipulately. Just like “nice” and “good” and a host of other words that can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean, which is, “what I say is fair, nice, good, how I define it.”
Those words, and that device, are especially pernicious because they are used to suppress dissent - because if you disagree with the person touting fairness, etc, you are ipso facto unfair, not nice, and bad.
This is kindergarten reasoning, and the fact that it can enter adult discourse is the symptom of the degeneration of our society.


17 posted on 10/30/2012 7:58:55 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: drbuzzard

Anyone who even uses the term “fairness” - let alone falling for the so-called argument is an imbecile. The very word is subjective, and is being used manipulately. Just like “nice” and “good” and a host of other words that can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean, which is, “what I say is fair, nice, good, how I define it.”
Those words, and that device, are especially pernicious because they are used to suppress dissent - because if you disagree with the person touting fairness, etc, you are ipso facto unfair, not nice, and bad.
This is kindergarten reasoning, and the fact that it can enter adult discourse is the symptom of the degeneration of our society.


18 posted on 10/30/2012 7:59:03 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: drbuzzard

It’s like “Children of a Lesser God” with the message of “we have our world, you have yours, so leave us alone”. It seems that the deaf are more separated from the larger world than those who are blind.


19 posted on 10/30/2012 8:37:36 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("Free speech is more important than Islam.")
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To: drbuzzard

“Professional deaf people that I have worked with are almost illiterate in English. Grammar, spelling, and syntax are all extremely shabby.”

Deaf here. No chip. Lost my hearing slowly over years. I am a hiring manager for a big Silicon Valley company.

In my experience, people in general have shabby grammer, spelling and syntax, not just the deaf.

If you work for a community college, you people already know that too many of your graduates come out of your system virtually illiterate and not prepared for a working life.


20 posted on 10/30/2012 10:29:36 AM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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