Posted on 09/27/2012 6:57:34 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
You’re right, it is music. On a scale of one to ten, rap is between zero and one.
LOL!
No, my argument based on careful observation of the popular culture and analysis.
What you labeled an epithet is in reality the conclusion of that observation and analysis.
So for those wondering, let me reiterate: the bulk of cRAP “music” is garbage, gutter spewing filth.
Simply put, damn near all Rap “music” sucks. You can go on and on trying to defend or explain it, but it simply sucks. It’s horrible.
I think I saw a crossword clue a few weeks ago that had Lil Wayne in it, or Lil somebody...
Whatever. I wouldn’t know Lil Wayne if he threw up on my shoes at a Taco Bell.
I'm tired of the words race and racist and having it injected into every aspect of life, even when it has no bearing on the subject at hand. There are people of talent and no talent, white and black.
Half of the time back in the 50's and 60's we never knew if the performers were black or white when we heard a song we liked. Not to mention the mixed race groups.
A few years ago I worked with a black woman in her 40's who listened to nothing but rap. I finally convinced her to listen to some of what she called "old white" music. I gave her some Ray Charles, Platters, Shirelles, Fats Domino, Hank Ballard & The Midnighters, etc. and she went crazy over it. She had heard of some of them but never bothered to actually listen to their music.
I told her some of their history and the history of their music and she was amazed that I knew more about black performers than she did. She got so interested she started to read about them and listen to the music regularly.
LOL!
Of course rap is played non-stop on many tv stations, so every once in a while I get a glimpse. Each and every time I see part of a rap video, there will be some overly-tattooed freak with baggy pants and a basecap not on straight, gyrating, skimpily-clad “dancing” girls in the background while the rapper goes on and on about what an incredible sexual beast he is or other similar nitwittery. Its basic appeal is to morons.
Epithets are not analysis. Your argument is lacking.
wideawake, it sounds like you are asleep-at-the-wheel when it comes to recognizing quality music.
Correct. You were using the extreme to suggest the mainstream.
I suppose that one could suggest that in today's art world, Serrano and Mapplethorpe are now mainstream (many adherents, but not world-wide acceptance); so the analogy would be apt. I really don't care.
Supposing that one could suggest something, and that something actually being the truth are two different things.
Most artists in any field prefer craft to shock value.
It's obvious you have some agenda regarding Rap/hip-hop.
I see. Whereas you are a completely disinterested observer.
You apparently love it, or participate in it, or produce it;
I enjoy some hip hop music, mostly of the instrumental variety. In other words, I prefer the producers (like DJ Shadow, The Gaslamp Killer, Damfunk, Hi-Tek, etc.) to most MCs.
or you are simply obsessed with semantics, and are unaccepting of generalizations about anything.
I think words have meanings and that it makes sense to use them purposefully.
And people are 'wrong' if they cling to past models of music production.
No, I think it's wrong to analyze the producer model of popular music using the band model as a framework. That only creates confusion.
If people want to stick with the band model for their music, more power to them.
I remain in agreement with Wynton Marsalis that rap is music reduced to a point where it is not music anymore.
Wynton Marsalis is speaking from a bit of a sour grapes perspective.
He is an extremely skilled curator of a particular subgenre of music - straight-ahead hard bop jazz - that was most popular from 1956 to 1963.
His lifelong goal was to revive it from the dead and make it a popular genre again, especially in the black community. His goal was never achieved and, ironically, the only time his genre became briefly relevant again was from 1989 to 1992 when there was a brief vogue among hip hop artists for sampling jazz records.
Realistically speaking, you cannot take an album like Kanye West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - which I don't think is nearly as good as most of the critics do - and say that it is "music reduced to a point where it's not music anymore." It is a richly orchestrated production as lavish and lush as any Phil Spector track, or Beach Boys record or Wynton Marsalis jazz opera.
There was a brief period - between 1986 and 1989 - when a large number of hip hop records were just a bare drum loop with words rapped over it, but that was a passing fad.
Like the hard bop Marsalis loves.
I just don't consider it music.
You can say that a million times, but it is not a logical statement. If I said that I don't consider flamenco music, what am I saying?
Maybe I mean "I hate flamenco" - but as an objective matter, flamenco is still music no matter what I say.
And hip hop is still music, no matter what you say.
Were that true, you would have thoughtful observations to share.
"It is because I say so" is pretty weak stuff, for a grownup.
You have no idea what records, artists or composers I like - or why.
It’s an interesting question. I’ve heard folks say the good hip hop and rap stuff doesn’t get played on the radio or become popular before, just like most other stuff today, which is fair enough. It seems to be true for every other type of popular music, anyhow.
But it seems to me most other types of music had a period where at least some of the good stuff was played or was at least well known by the general populace. So I guess the question is it a function of when rap came into existance, as in an era where any new thing would not have any of the the best of it put forward by the industry? Or is it that rap has a lot more bad stuff vs. good stuff by nature?
Classical music would seem to be harder to write than a solid three minute rock song, just like rap seems, at least to me, to be easier to create than the solid rock song. Not talking about worth, just the diffuculty of performance and execution. Does that mean there might be less really good rap?
Freegards
So as I got older, I always tried to keep up with the current music trends so that I would be able to share musical tastes with my own kids and not be the stereotypical uncool parent.
Well I made it until about the mid 1990s before I threw in the towel and gave up trying to keep up with current trends. The music of today, not only the rap but the rock bands like Offspring and Green Day is just so angry and negative that it depresses me. The music of my youth was positive and uplifting, made you happy to be alive. This current music however just makes me want to drive off a cliff.
So I go back to the classic rock of my youth or maybe a country station. Actually the modern country music of today is a lot like how pop music sounded back in the 1970s.
That period for hip hop was brief - roughly 1989 to 1993, when acts like Tribe Called Quest, the Black Sheep and De La Soul had a window of exposure before grunge rock sucked all the air out of radio.
just like rap seems, at least to me, to be easier to create than the solid rock song. Not talking about worth, just the diffuculty of performance and execution.
It isn't so much difficulty of performance and execution I would say, as of the ease of recording.
In 1975, when everybody and his brother wanted to be the next Peter Frampton, only a handful of people could afford to record and press master-quality recordings. Many, many terrible rock bands and singer/songwriters existed but almost none made it to tape.
In 2012, everybody wants to be Young Jeezy but this time everybody has a smartphone that can digitally record anything that comes into their head and lay it over a downloaded backing track.
Largely true. But try listening to the Smith Westerns or Fleet Foxes.
Not everyone is angry or negative.
Elvis was a fat drug addict, and the cultural veneration of him, his stuff, his house, and his impersonators is every bit as sick as Lil' Wayne.
The Beatles kept it somewhat secret, though, right? I’ve never seen “While My Guitar Gently Weeps” by The Beatles feat. Eric Clapton.
No idea? You're here trying to defend cRap music, aren't you? That tells me all I need to know regarding your taste in music, and of your apparent lack of concern for the damage that cRap, particular the "gangsta" variety, has done to our culture. The way it promotes violence, hatred and street thuggery.
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