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3 views on whether states should legalize marijuana
CSMonitor ^ | 09/10/2012

Posted on 09/11/2012 12:21:05 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd

This November, voters in Colorado, Oregon, and Washington will consider ballot measures to legalize and regulate marijuana, much as alcohol and tobacco are taxed and regulated. In this first in a series of "one minute debates" for election 2012, three writers give their brief take on the issue.

The 'yes' case is argued by Paul Armentano, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). The 'no' position is offered by David G. Evans, a special adviser to the Drug Free America Foundation. And a middle path is suggested by Kevin A. Sabet, who has worked on drug policy under three presidents of both parties.

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cannabis; drugs; drugwar; heroinisdope; marijuana; statesrights; warondrugs; wod; wodlist; wosd
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1. Yes: Follow the model of tobacco regulation. Its use is at a historic low.

2. No: Legalization will increase use – and health, social, and economic costs.

3. A middle path: Find ways to access medical benefits without legalization

1 posted on 09/11/2012 12:21:13 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
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To: Responsibility2nd

Pro-dope liberals waiving the white flag on the WOD to show up in 5, 4, 3...


2 posted on 09/11/2012 12:22:48 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

George Schultz, Casper Weinberger and William F. Buckley all supported legalizing marijuana. Are they liberals?


3 posted on 09/11/2012 12:25:55 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Pro-dope liberals waiving the white flag on the WOD to show up in 5, 4, 3...

If you didn't want to have a debate on the merits of drug legalization why did you post this thread?

4 posted on 09/11/2012 12:28:53 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: jmacusa

Yes.


5 posted on 09/11/2012 12:29:16 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: jmacusa

For a free society, we sure spend a lot of time trying to control other people’s behaviour.


6 posted on 09/11/2012 12:30:43 PM PDT by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

“...why did you post this thread?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I like messing with the liberals here at FR.


7 posted on 09/11/2012 12:31:19 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I didn't see the Constitution mentioned in the article or in your posts.

Tell me, which section do you personally believe delegates authority to fedgov to overrule the states on medical marijuana?

8 posted on 09/11/2012 12:32:29 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

“I didn’t see the Constitution mentioned in the article or in your posts.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There’s a reason for that. It’s called the 10th amendment.


9 posted on 09/11/2012 12:35:21 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

LOL. I’m guess I’m guilty, if by “pro-dope liberal” you mean someone who sees no difference between pot and booze and thinks the states should each be free to legalize or ban it as they see fit.


10 posted on 09/11/2012 12:36:29 PM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Responsibility2nd

So which section of the Constitution do you personally believe delegates authority to fedgov to overrule the states on medical marijuana?


12 posted on 09/11/2012 12:43:03 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Responsibility2nd

There will never be significant taxes to collect.

Growing pot is easy, and fun, and there is no complicated processes needed to light it up and inhale for getting high.

Making a Marlboro, or a bottle of Scotch, or even a decent beer is totally different.


13 posted on 09/11/2012 12:44:38 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Pro-dope pro-smaller government liberals Liberals waiving the white flag on the WOD to show up in 5, 4, 3...

*fixed*
At least get the terminology right

14 posted on 09/11/2012 12:48:30 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: Captain Proton

Prohibition DID work.

The USA was a Nation of drunkards. Temperance groups were successful in turning this nation around. And after awhile Prohibition was repealed, but the drug alcohol still remains our number one social disease and is still highly restricted.

Only a fool wants to replace booze with a far greater danger to America


15 posted on 09/11/2012 12:49:34 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: ansel12

Actually pot and tobacco are about the same in difficulty. Anybody can grow, anybody can dry it, anybody can smoke it. BUT your quality is based on the seed stock of what you’re growing, how well you keep the bugs away, and how well you dry it (too fast and too slow both have problems). Even booze, it’s actually pretty easy if you’re will to spend the time to do it right. People tend to have other things to do with their time, which is why they buy instead of make.


16 posted on 09/11/2012 12:50:42 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Pro dope liberals vs. dopey Freeper.


17 posted on 09/11/2012 12:51:28 PM PDT by GSWarrior (Businessmen are more trustworthy than professors, politicians and preachers.)
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To: Ken H

WHO here is saying the Constitution “delegates authority to fedgov to overrule the states on medical marijuana?”

I’ve not said that. Why do you say that?


18 posted on 09/11/2012 12:52:18 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

It only took two posts. You’re quick.


19 posted on 09/11/2012 12:52:52 PM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Responsibility2nd

Prohibition didn’t work. It didn’t stop people from drinking, it drove out formerly legitimate businesses, and gave tons of money to organized crime. That’s not working, it made the problem worse by adding gun fights.


20 posted on 09/11/2012 12:52:59 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Pot cannot be regulated like Alcohol and Tobacco.

Pot isn’t a complicated substance, it is just a weed, treat it like a tomato plant and the sturdy plant becomes a source for high quality weed, except that it is a neater, tidier plant than a tomato plant, so it is easier to grow in your closet, or spare bedroom.

Since the weed stays useful for years, you can grow your own occasionally maybe 10 pounds at once, and then use the excess for parties and casual sales, gifts to little brothers and sisters, and for in between growing seasons.


21 posted on 09/11/2012 12:54:06 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: Responsibility2nd
"NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!"

Do you dislike what Ann Ryan had to say as well? There is a big difference between a Classic Liberal and a libertarian party liberal. If you don't know the differences then you shouldn't be trolling us.

22 posted on 09/11/2012 12:54:41 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: Responsibility2nd
Why are we caught up in diversions during an election cycle.

The party that has much to HIDE welcomes this.

23 posted on 09/11/2012 12:55:43 PM PDT by capt. norm (Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never run out of material. c)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I favor #1.

I am exceptionally tire of the militarized LEO and their WOD and the negative effects on our civil liberties is too high a cost, IMO, to pay for the supposed benefits of interdiction and suppression of marijuana use.


24 posted on 09/11/2012 12:56:16 PM PDT by Valpal1
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To: ansel12

“There will never be significant taxes to collect.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ahh! But that’s the number one reason TO legalize it.

If you take away the tax revenue, what’s left?

I’ll tell you what’s left. HEAVY FINES and even jail time for being caught with an unregulated joint.

Is this really what you liberals want? More taxes - more legislation?


25 posted on 09/11/2012 12:56:16 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

First, we should settle the question of whether they can.


26 posted on 09/11/2012 12:56:36 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Ken H

“So which section of the Constitution do you personally believe delegates authority to fedgov to overrule the states on medical marijuana?”

Good point. The booze prohibitionists realized that they needed an amendment if Congress was to have the authority to ban an intoxicant. Drug prohibitionists are as bad as liberals in this respect. They are too lazy to amend the Constitution to expand the federal government’s reach, so they just expand it without any constitutional authority.


27 posted on 09/11/2012 12:56:57 PM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Responsibility2nd
"I’ve not said that. Why do you say that?"

of course you did. Your pro-federal government regulating the substance. You can not get around that

28 posted on 09/11/2012 12:59:43 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: discostu

I have grown pot and my grandmother used to grow tobbacco, she used it for chewing to save money, but she couldn’t make a fine Marlboro, making Scotch or whiskey is difficult and takes a lot of effort.

Growing pot is incredibly easy, it truly is a weed, in fact it can be hard to keep it out of your yard, to feed it and play with it a little gives you great pot.

Pot is easier than tomatoes, when it is legal it will be like cheap weenies during the summer, it will be shared, and gifted, people will show up at parties with free ounces, because the hobby guys and the gardeners will all be competing with each other. There won’t be anything to regulate.


29 posted on 09/11/2012 1:01:35 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: discostu
Prohibition didn’t work. It didn’t stop people from drinking, it drove out formerly legitimate businesses, and gave tons of money to organized crime. That’s not working, it made the problem worse by adding gun fights

Correct, but vastly undestated. Prior to Prohibition, the primary drink was beer and wine. Whiskey, Gin and other Liquors were considered "low class", and the drink of the drunkard. During Prohibition, people quickly realized that condensing the alcohol was a more efficient and profitable way to move alcohol. A keg of beer gets 20 people drunk - the same keg of Whiskey gets 200 people drunk.

Carry this over to the WOD. 20 years ago, Crack, PCP, Crystal, Meth and a host of other drugs didn't exist. We had various grades of marijuana (none of them holds a candle to the grades commonly available today) and Coke. But, because of demand and the need to concentrate the narcotics; drugs that were never contemplated 20 years ago - are commonplace today, with newer and more addicive variations appearing more and more often.

Prohibition does far more than create a criminal class, and create a very lucrative contraband product. It CREATES newer and more dangerous forms of contraband. For example, prior to Prohibition, the liquor Everclear did not exist.

30 posted on 09/11/2012 1:02:19 PM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
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To: Steve Van Doorn

“Do you dislike what Ann Ryan had to say as well?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An atheist libertarian? Why would I dislike what an atheist libertarian has to say?

~snort~

“There is a big difference between a Classic Liberal and a libertarian party liberal.”

A Social liberal is still a liberal. I don’t trust them. If they are wrong socially - they are wrong economically, politically, and in all other ways as well.


31 posted on 09/11/2012 1:02:27 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Captain Proton

There were a lot of positives from the Prohibition era.

It was known as the Roaring 20’s. A time of great economic prosperity.

Church Attendance per capita hit an all time high.

Admissions to mental hospitals per capita hit an all time low.


32 posted on 09/11/2012 1:03:59 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Valpal1

“I favor #1.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pity that your NORML heroes Barney Frank and Ron Paul are retiring, isn’t it?

A real pity.


33 posted on 09/11/2012 1:05:13 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

This is an issue that tears me. One the one hand the fedgov has no responsibility to protect people from themselves. I don’t see any reason to ban pot.

On the other hand I tend to detest pot heads. They usually have no motivation and contribute nothing to society.

I could be convinced to support legalization IF any crime involving the drug (say selling to minors) was dealt with extremely harshly, AND any health damage resulting from it’s use was not covered by any form of government aid or even private insurance (in other words, you smoke it and it kills you - tough noogies!) Of course I feel the same way towards alcohol, tobacco, not using seat belts, and riding motorcycles without helmets. It’s not my job to pay for someone else’s stupidity.

I did hear a report this morning that pot greatly increases the incidence in testicular cancer. Again, if you smoke it and your balls fall off don’t come crying to me.


34 posted on 09/11/2012 1:05:42 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Responsibility2nd
"Prohibition DID work."

Utopia through regulation is a socialist concept.

Doesn't matter if it worked or not. it is still socialism 101.

35 posted on 09/11/2012 1:06:00 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: Steve Van Doorn

of course you did. Your pro-federal government regulating the substance. You can not get around that

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Link please. What? No link? Then you are lying.


36 posted on 09/11/2012 1:07:39 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: ansel12

She could have, but you need to get the right seeds, grow them right, harvest them right, age them right and dry them right. Same thing happens with pot, there’s ditch weed which is what you probably grew, and there’s top end indica you can sell for over $1000 an ounce. There’s a lot of hard work, patience and good seeds that goes into making top end pot.

Tobacco’s legal and people aren’t running around selling ditch tobacco. If it became illegal though it would show up. Quality white markets kill low end black markets, people are willing to pay for convenience and quality.


37 posted on 09/11/2012 1:08:22 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Once it is legal, then it will become fully legal.

If you have ever had a persistent problem with unwanted pot plants popping up, then you know what legalization will result in, plants will be everywhere.


38 posted on 09/11/2012 1:08:22 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Troll.


39 posted on 09/11/2012 1:08:55 PM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Responsibility2nd
The only things the WOD has accomplished is shredding the Fourth Amendment & making a lot of criminals rich.

If this is a war, what exactly is the exit strategy?

40 posted on 09/11/2012 1:09:16 PM PDT by gdani
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To: ansel12

“There will never be significant taxes to collect.”

Right - an approximate $22billion idustry “will never” produce “significant taxes to collect”. /sarc


41 posted on 09/11/2012 1:09:20 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: John O
On the other hand I tend to detest pot heads. They usually have no motivation and contribute nothing to society.

So, your personal animosity towards a certain segment of a society should be enough to warrant the criminalization of a naturally-occurring substance and continue the expanding reach of the federal government into the private lives of American citizens.

Solid reasoning there, friend.

42 posted on 09/11/2012 1:12:14 PM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Responsibility2nd
"“Do you dislike what Ann Ryan had to say as well?”

Responsibility2nd:
Why would I dislike what an atheist libertarian has to say?

You believe in a Utopian vision through regulation and you hate Ann Ryan a corner stone of conservationism.

Why are you on a conservative web site trolling?

43 posted on 09/11/2012 1:12:42 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: ansel12
There will never be significant taxes to collect.

Then how is it California collects $100M tax revenues yearly on $1.3B in medical marijuana sales?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-08/u-s-takes-aim-at-california-s-1-billion-marijuana-dispensaries.html

44 posted on 09/11/2012 1:12:51 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: discostu

Bull, and no, ditch weed isn’t what I grew, you guys keep trying to spread the myth that salable pot is difficult to grow, but it isn’t.

Making good tobacco cigarettes is difficult, that is why people don’t do it.

This mythology that you guys are trying to create is dishonest.

Your example of $1000.00 an ounce is one, the 1960s wasn’t fueled by $1000.00 an ounce weed. You want seeds, then legalize pot and you will have all the good seeds that you want.


45 posted on 09/11/2012 1:15:11 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: John O

The fact that there are pot heads for you to hate shows how unsuccessful prohibition is. We’re spending billions of dollars a year making it illegal, and everybody knows people who smoke it.


46 posted on 09/11/2012 1:15:24 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

“the drug alcohol” did not and does not create alcoholism, a behaviorial condition brought about by persons who get into an excessive drinking habit; a habit that the vast majority of alcohol consumers do not allow themselves to develop

Alcohol is no more responsible for alcohomism than sex is for sex addiction, or than guns are for “gun violence”.

Even when people fail to control their behavior, that failure CAUSED by the drug, the sex, or the gun violence, and that failure is not fixed and permanent and control is within their ability.

Blame the person, not their choice of addiction; and it is a choice.


47 posted on 09/11/2012 1:16:21 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: John O
"On the other hand I tend to detest pot heads. They usually have no motivation and contribute nothing to society."

In order for freedom to work we must allow people to be stupid. Other wise we must give into the Utopian vision of socialism

48 posted on 09/11/2012 1:17:04 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: gdani

The only things the WOD has accomplished is shredding the Fourth Amendment & making a lot of criminals rich.

Rich criminals? I assume you mean the drug cartels. Yesss, they are very rich. Do you also want them to become successful US business corporations too? The next Anheuser Busch and Jim Beam?

I didn't think so.

 

If this is a war, what exactly is the exit strategy?

Winning by not surrendering. Yes, there will be casualties. There will be the occasional no-knock raid gone bad. But the alternative to surrendering in the WOT or the WOD is unthinkable.

 

49 posted on 09/11/2012 1:17:48 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd
WHO here is saying the Constitution “delegates authority to fedgov to overrule the states on medical marijuana?” I’ve not said that. Why do you say that?

My bad!

So do you think states should decide on medical mj, and not the feds? YES or NO

50 posted on 09/11/2012 1:18:20 PM PDT by Ken H
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