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To: MamaTexan
LOL! Trying to create your own definition of Liberty is not a third choice

I am not creating my own definition of liberty. Straight from the dictionary the definition on liberty is "freedom from control". So pure liberty is pure freedom from control of any sort...anarchy. No getting around it, no matter how nuanced you are trying to be.

You completely missed the point of a third choice,. The government doesn't own your body. If you believe in the ultimate sovereignty of the Almighty, then neither do you. Choice one; "the government owns a person's body" (no private ownership). Choice two;"I own my body"(private property, defined by man). Choice three; "I submit to the sovereignty of God" (private property though natural rights).

The problem with the first choice is obvious; it turns people into chattel. The problem with he second choice is that it is defined by man, like the first one, and can hence be redefined by man; usually by forcing the first choice upon the unwilling. The third one places the basis of ownership on a plain above man. As such men can still come take your stuff, they can throw you in bondage; they can never "own" you, though.

Following the course above, the legitimate source of power in our government comes from men exercising the natural rights granted to them by God. The brilliant men who founded this country believed that so much that they wrote it in to the Constitution. They believed in the concept so much that they risked and, in many cases, lost their fortunes and lives over it. I'm not going to argue with them, or the Power above.

In the end, you are right, though. If you believe in God, it's not too terribly complex. If you are secular, then it really is more complex. That's because you have to wrap your head around the fact someone believes that you are not the end all be all arbitrator of what is right and wrong, and that there are a set of rules above that of man that guide the universe.

As an aside, you don't have to be a Christian to reap the benefits of a system based on the belief in the sovereignty of God. If the government (derived from the people by and large) becomes divorced from that belief, though, everyone suffers. Look at the state of the nation at the moment as an example.

37 posted on 08/16/2012 7:45:30 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: Turbo Pig
I am not creating my own definition of liberty. Straight from the dictionary the definition on liberty is "freedom from control". So pure liberty is pure freedom from control of any sort...anarchy.

You're confusing freedom from control with freedom from consequences.

If the Founders thought we should be 'controlled', they would have written - "We hereby create the United States" and gone home! The consequences of the exercise of Liberty is that should I do someone an injury, they have a right to sue for compensation. Government has no business in our business.....unless you believe the Constitution is a 'living document'.

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That's because you have to wrap your head around the fact someone believes that you are not the end all be all arbitrator of what is right and wrong, and that there are a set of rules above that of man that guide the universe.

LOL! We weren't talking about God's laws. Do you seriously think all legitimate authority from government comes from God? If so, please show me the Chapter and verse that says God prohibits ingestion of a plant or chemical compound.

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If the government (derived from the people by and large) becomes divorced from that belief, though, everyone suffers.

Authority for government comes from the people, yes.

So answer me this -

Do I, as an individual, have the legal authority to come to your house, throw in a flash-bang grenade, shoot your dog, terrorize your family and destroy your home all because I think you may own something I don't agree with?

Conversely, do you possess an authority as an individual to do the same to anyone else?

38 posted on 08/16/2012 8:09:10 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a Person as Created by the Laws of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man)
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To: Turbo Pig

Suppose CO votes to legalize. Do you support its authority under the Tenth Amendment to enact such a policy?


53 posted on 08/16/2012 9:57:36 AM PDT by Ken H
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