Aurora Shooter exhibits classic schizophrenia pattern

Vanity | July 20, 2012 | Prospero

[dennisw]

Crazy or not he needs a swift trial and execution. 30 days should be enough. The man who tried to assassinate President Roosevelt was tried and executed 35 days after he killed Anton Cermack but missed FDR

“On March 20, 1933, after spending only 10 days on Death Row, Zangara was executed in Old Sparky, the electric chair at Florida State Prison in Raiford, Florida.”

[Jedidah]

The answer to your question is yes.

We don’t know the story on this shooter yet. But I hold strongly that the mentally ill have a responsibility to get help. It is entirely possible to be both ill and evil.

What we need is to somehow get some tools in place so friends and family who see a person’s deteriorating mental state can force him treatment before he goes bonkers. EVEN IF HE IS UNWILLING.

That is nearly impossible under current law.

[MurrietaMadman]

Mind control isn’t less a possibility than claiming the after affects of pot smoking is responsible for the inhuman behaviour of the shooter or diagnosing schizophrenia from what one might have learned from the noise coming out of the tv.

At least there is something to connect the possibility of exposure of the shooter to mind control, starting with Darpa and UC Riverside.

First, Darpa’s interest:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/07/holy-acronym-darpa-batman-robin-to-master-biology-outdo-evolution/

or another version: http://www.noonehastodietomorrow.com/tech/weaponry/2385

UCR’s efforts from http://www.fiatlux.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=108

Funding CNID
The Defense Advanced Research Project Agency (DARPA) and Defense MicroElectronics Activity (DMEA) sponsor the three-campus CNID. The center aims at the control and understanding of nanoscale materials, with applications in information and communications technology.

and from http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/5923

$4.4 million from DARPA to establish the Center for Nanoscience Innovation for Defense (CNID). A collaboration with UCLA, UC Riverside, 10 industrial partners, and the National Laboratories, CNID will inform government and industry about innovative fundamental science and technology and keep companies and defense contractors abreast of new developments in four areas applicable to next-generation computers— advanced communication technologies, nanoscale semiconductors, new sensors, and imaging systems.

Throwing this one in for lobster lovers. Maybe be useful, maybe not. http://www.neurotechnology.neu.edu/ayers.html

As you noted, Prospero, the level of organization did not necessarily fit the pattern of most schizophrenic behaviour. But I’d bet there is another behavioural pattern that could be identified from terror event to terror event.

Another opinion.

[presently no screen name]

Answer me a few questions - I’ll read your link later.

Some are saying they hear voices in their head

Is this all the time or sometime?

What if that voice spoke to him on Thursday to what dress up and go to the movies and tear gas the place

And On Friday, the voice is quiet. Does he move on what he heard thursday or does nothing On Friday because the voice is quiet - or the voice is always jabbering away and never quiet. Any one know is this is one’s own voice speaking to them?

This guy was to take some pain pills before hand - do the voices give them headaches or pain of some sort?

Do schizo like haveing a voice speaking to them in their head and think it is normal? Do they look for it, if it isn’t there.

And I think I read something about healing, is there such a thing for them to be healed? Can they deliberately tell those voices to stop and they obey.

Answer however you can to just enlighten me a bit. I know nothing about it .

[JediJones]

Other than the advanced technical prowess of this killer, his actions seem to make a close parallel to Mark David Chapman and his killing of John Lennon. I don’t think Chapman was ever said to be truly mentally ill and I don’t think Holmes is either.

Both had some obsession with fame and/or with a famous person, one real, John Lennon, the other fictional, the Joker. The killings were designed to inexorably link him to the famous person, and demonstrate to the world that he is not just a nobody, but that he is worthy of the same respect and attention the famous person gets. The killings were methodically planned and premeditated with money and effort put into them.

Both of them surrendered to cops without resistance and were to some degree almost bragging to the cops about what they had done, not showing remorse or a desire to cover anything up, at least at first.

Both seemed like “nice guys” to people who knew them and may have been bottling up pent-up aggression for a long time. They were intelligent and functional in life, although Chapman was more successfully socially, less with work and school, Holmes was the reverse. Although both dropped out of school prior to the killings.

Chapman did have a suicide attempt, which for now it seems Holmes never did. Chapman was a drug user, we don’t know if Holmes was, but his Adult Friend Finder page implies he was since he marked “prefer not to answer” on the question about using drugs.

A bigger difference is that Chapman targetted a specific individual he disliked. Holmes targetted random individuals. But both attacks could still be seen as ways to achieve fame. It was the setting and style in Holmes case, rather than the person he targetted. Also, because Holmes had trouble socially which Chapman did not, Holmes may have had feelings of aggression towards humanity at large that Chapman did not share.

“In his 2006 parole board hearing, when asked if he murdered Lennon to become famous, Chapman said “The result would be that I would be famous, the result would be that my life would change and I would receive a tremendous amount of attention, which I did receive... I was in a very confused, dark place. I was looking for reasons to vent all that anger and confusion and low self esteem.””

I don’t know if I’d call it low self-esteem but I’d say both were arrogant enough to think they deserved more attention, power and control than they felt they had. The low self-esteem could come into play in them thinking they had no legitimate way to achieve this and instead had to break the rules of society to set themselves apart from the pack.

I do think the whole idea of Holmes being inspired by a violent movie to kill people is going to fall by the wayside. If that were the case, it could have been him imitating some violent act from some obscure horror movie no one has ever seen. This looks much more like Holmes trying to associate himself with something famous, in this case the star character of one of the most popular movies of the last few years as well as the big media event of the opening night of its equally high-profile sequel.

It also might be relevant that Holmes had to specifically target this date to enact his plan. So this may have affected the timing of his actions over the past few months.

[presently no screen name]

His mother is a nurse and his father is into the sciences. I would think a parent who know if something is off but as someone mention upthread, one someone reaches 18, they really have no say w/o the cooperation of their adult child.

[DrC]

“Yet mental health assessment and intervention is so very hard to get in this country.”

I seriously doubt that inability to get MH care was this guy’s problem. A) there’s community mental health centers all over the country that provide free services to patients who can’t afford it; B) virtually every major college/university also provides ample MH resources to his students. It’s inconceivable Holmes didn’t have access to such services as an undergrad at UC-Riverside or at UC-Denver as a doctoral student. So your general observation may have validity, but I don’t think that solving that issue would in any way have affected this guy’s behavior etc.

[Gay State Conservative]

For those of us who have, we know that getting help for someone who adamantly refuses to acknowledge a problem is nigh impossible. Keeping a schizophrenic or violent bipolar patient on meds is also very hard, because they feel better and stronger and on top of their world unmedicated.

Neither I nor any member of my family is/has ever been schizophrenic but a 20+ year career working in a major hospital's ER has taught me a thing or two about the disease.One of the main thing's I've learned is that,particularly given this country's current laws and the headlong rush to close down psychiatric wards over the last 40 years or so,schizophrenics usually do very,very poorly here in spite of the fact that medications exist that are usually effective in controlling symptoms.To explain further would take time but anyone in the medical profession will confirm this.

[Gay State Conservative]

Who knows if this guy's a schizophrenic or not.But if he is I can assure that the disease *does* exist and it's the most devastating of the many "psychiatric" diseases that effect the human brain.

But I hold strongly that the mentally ill have a responsibility to get help.

In schizophrenics the very organ that allows one to recognize his/her "responsibilities" is biologically devastated.

It is entirely possible to be both ill and evil.

I suspect that's true with some psych disorders but,although genuine schizophrenics sometimes *do* evil things I'd be reluctant to classify them as *being* evil.

What we need is to somehow get some tools in place so friends and family who see a person’s deteriorating mental state can force him treatment before he goes bonkers. EVEN IF HE IS UNWILLING.

Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner! Yes,that's exactly correct...certainly in the case of schizophrenia (and other psych disorders,perhaps).But there's one flaw in your plan....."civil liberties" lawyers (and their supporters in state legislatures).

[Jedidah]

My point was not that mental health treatment is lacking, but that families and friends of the seriously ill have no power to get treatment for an unwilling patient.

As laws now stand, the dangerously ill cannot be stopped until they either commit an offense or are hauled by law enforcement before a judge who decides whether danger exists at the time of the hearing. I speak as one who has had to instigate proceedings, including arrest and evaluation by the court.

Even then, those living in a fantasy role are sometimes able to convince a judge it’s just a family dispute. Fortunately, it worked for us.

Nobody killed with that rifle he had hidden in the truck, crazy as a loon and angry at the world, driving all over the state.

There was plenty of treatment available, but there is also a brick wall between that help and the knowing adults who have no legal power to force the loony into it.

Sorry I was not clearer.

[varyouga]

I've seen all of these re-hashed studies before and none are valid for the reasons below. Please read the following carefully and in its entirety as I wont repeat myself:

1) The studies with the most dramatic findings(300%, 600%, etc) only screened for symptoms of mental illness at some point in the subject's life. Qualifying symptoms are things like "paranoia", "recklessness", "social withdrawal" and "depression". Nearly everyone has had such "symptoms" at some point in their lives. These studies did not specifically research DSM-IV officially diagnosed mentally ill individuals. Read the fine print carefully. From the 2005 NZ "Study": "After carefully controlling for self-medication and other confounding factors, the British researchers found that those who had smoked cannabis three times or more before the age of 15 were much more likely to suffer symptoms of schizophrenia." Also, who the heck are they kidding with "three times"?

2) EVEN IF they did show a large amount of data on cannabis smoking correlating to a true DSM-IV diagnosis, studies showing ONLY a correlation of any two separate diseases or activities proves NOTHING about causation. For example - "Only about 25 percent of Americans in the general population currently smoke [tobacco], according to current estimates. But 80 percent or more of people with schizophrenia smoke [tobacco]".

If you believe the identical cannabis studies, you can say this also "proves" tobacco smoking increases the risk of "developing" schizophrenia by 320%. The data on this is exactly as strong as what you presented for cannabis, but presented without false conclusions or anti-cannabis hysteria. The statistics of alcohol or prescrption drug abuse by schizophernics are nearly identical also. The reasonable accepted medical reason for such correlations is that mentally ill people are more likely to self medicate with alcohol or drugs after suffering with the disease. One of the main symptoms of these illnesses is to not trust outside help and medicate on your own.

To prove direct causation, a study would need to show either A) direct biological evidence of damage from cannabis in test animals or humans(never has been proven at ANY dosage) or B) twin behavioral studies where one twin is given cannabis and another is not until a diagnosis happens (not a single case of this has ever been tested or observed). In fact, one of the few twin studies on cannabis says "Twin study fails to prove 'gateway drug' hypothesis" (published by JAMA)

3) There are statistics that show the rates for schizophrenia diagnosis did not increase even as drug abuse of ALL kinds exploded after the 1960s - especially widespread abuse of strong psychedelics that are far more mind-altering than cannabis. True schizophrenia diagnosis has always been recorded at slightly below 1% of the population - even through the recent great changes in politics, standards of living and substance abuse throughout the entire world. Look with your own eyes:

Percentage of Americans Who Have Tried Cannabis:

Source: National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2006

Source: National Survey on Drug Use and Health, 2009

Rates of Schizophrenia Diagnosis:

Source: Schizophrenia Bulletin, Vol 24(4), 1998, 529-535

[DrC]

“Sorry I was not clearer.”

Sorry for my own misinterpretation of your comment. I haven’t followed every jot and tittle or this sad tale, but my general impression is that this individual was not known to be mentally unbalanced by his friends, family, peers etc. Most of the comments I’ve seen allude to this being very out-of-character behavior etc. So it sounds like your family “dodged a bullet” so to speak. Count your blessings.

[Southack]

Schizophrenic?? More likely “Manipulated Apathy” than schizoid (schizoids are rarely violent).

...but you’d have to be into neuroscience to know about MA experiments.

[21twelve]

Here is an interesting video of him at 18. Whether he was schizo or became too involved with his research might be a point of debate.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31293702/detail.html

snips:

The video showing Holmes speaking at a science camp at Miramar College in San Diego when he was 18.

Holmes’ presentation is on “temporal illusion,” which he defines as “an illusion that allows you to change the past.” In the video, he said he studies subjective experience, calling it “what takes place inside the mind, as opposed to the external world.”

This is how he was explaining his mentor’s shared interest in fantasy versus reality in the video.
End snips.

********************************
A new song out, called The Anarchist, has these fitting lines in it:

In all your science of the mind, seeking blind through flesh and bone
Find the blood inside this stone
What I know, I’ve never shown; what I feel, I’ve always known
I plan my vengeance on my own - and I was always alone

Oh - They tried to get me
Oh - they’ll never forget me.

[SatinDoll]

Re-hashed studies.

No can be deeper in denial than a stoner.

[spunkets]

There’s no evidence at all this guy is a schiz. Nacissistic, histrionic and schizoid yes, but not schiz. In short he is a spoiled rotten little shthd, that lashed out at the world, because they failed to idolize him.

[Pelham]

“This is NOT a level of organization someone suffering from schizophrenia is even remotely capable of carrying out. “

I don’t know where you get that. Not all schizophrenics are rendered unable to function.

Schizophrenics can be highly intelligent. The disease doesn’t reduce their intellect, but it does make them subject to crazed thoughts and delusions. Some do a very good job at masking the disease because of their intelligence, which is a problem because they don’t get the help they need. Fortunately most don’t do something violent.

[varyouga]

You probably did not read past the first sentence(like I thought you would), did not respond with a single fact and retorted with a false personal attack. I've been debating this topic for nearly 2 decades and 7 years on this site alone. That's where it always ends when no supporters of these corrupt laws can counter with a single fact.

Please read my entire statement and respond like an adult. I really want someone out there to enlighten me and prove the WOD is not a corrupt pointless war on our own citizens for profit and control...

[SatinDoll]

You can talk all you want. Marijuana and other drugs are illegal for a reason - they rob individuals of their free will and ability to make rational decisions. Such substances destroy lives, not just of the user, but their families.

The punishment for drug use and trafficking should be death by hanging.

[RipSawyer]

Schizophrenia is not the same thing as multiple personality disorder, this is incorrect information that we all picked up from TV and movies over the years. It is one of those things I thought I knew until I learned that what I “knew” was wrong.