Posted on 07/04/2012 1:01:35 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Both the delta wing shape and the leading canards are serious radar reflectors. There is no way that the Gripen has a low RCS, even in “comparative” terms (except with respect to other delta/canard fighters like the Euro). I need to see your source on this assertion...
The Rafale superior to the Eurofighter? Don’t make me laugh. The best that can be said is that it is a more ‘mature’ airframe that has had more time for problems to be ironed out and its pilots are generally more experienced. In the air-to-air role, the EF as an air platform totally outclasses the Rafale, and this gap will widen more as the EF and its avionics/weapons systems (particularly its radar) mature and its pilots gain more experience.
The advantage of the Rafale is that (for the moment) it is a superior air-to-ground platform and it can land on a carrier. Again, if these are more important considerations than pure air-to-air superiority, then the Rafale might not be an unreasonable choice for some customers, particularly India.
As for the better cost efficiency of the Gripen, you could certainly argue that at less than half the price and with greater fuel efficiency, it is better value for money for most countries that are considering it, but the fact of the matter is that if you want the best a2a platform and you aren’t the United States of America, the Eurofighter is the best that you can get right now if you are willing to pay...
Check the relative sizes of F-16 and F-18 and compare that with Gripen. Gripen is a tiny fighter with reduced signature intakes.
F-15C RCS = 10~15m2 effective detection range is 450 ~ 600 km
F/A-18C RCS = 3 m2 effective detection range 330 ~ 395 km
F-16C RCS = 1.2 m2 effective detection range 260 ~ 310 km
JAS39 RCS = 0.5 m2 effective detection range 210 ~ 250 km
F-35A RCS = 0.0015 m2 effective detection range 50 ~ 60 km
F/A-22 RCS <= 0.0002~0.0005 m2 effective detection range < = 30 ~ 45 km
The JAS39 Gripen will be “seeing” the F-16, F/A-18s and F-15s long before they see the Gripen on their radar.
http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf
Rafale beats the EF hands down in every category. Eurofighter “totally outclasses” the Rafale? You make ME laugh every time you use that word “outclasses”. EF "outclasses" nothing. Right now the “gap” is actually in favor of Rafale. The gap MAY shrink if the consortium members get their act together. If the can come to a decision on the radar/avionics and weapon system but not with development costs spiraling and member countries in disagreement and cutting down on the number of their fighters. The EF already lost out in India, Japan, Switzerland and Turkey and got canceled in Greece. While Rafale just won the largest ever contract in India and poised to win in Brazil and UAE. The EF Typhoon's future at the moment looks bleak. As I said it's only a paper tiger right now.
As for India, Rafale would a basic multi role fighter. The future air superiority role will be taken on by the PAK FA .......which will make the EF Typhoon look like ....your favourite .....Gloster Gladiator!
And read about Hungarian airforce shooting down a Typhoon with their Gripen.....
The Gripen occupies a sweet spot at lower end of the Cost to Capability chart. By the time the EF matures into a capable platform there will be quite a few 5th gen stealth fighters programs from Russia, China, India, South Korea, Turkey and Japan occupying the other end of the performance scale. EF will be somewhere in the middle occupying a spot called useless and overpriced. Its only chance of winning a combat will be against old Soviet Migs from third world airforces.
Couldn’t read the PDF unfortunately, however, I doubt it will anything to disprove what I have said, which is that in the air to air role, the EF is superior. It is undeniably faster and more manouevarable and that it has greater potential for further improvement thanks to its larger size and more modern air frame.
Citing isolated examples of Gripens and Rafales shooting down Eurofighters does not prove it is a better plane. As I have said, an inferior plane flown by a skilled pilot in favourable conditions can shoot down a superior plane flown by a less skilled pilot or one who was caught in unfavourable circumstances.
As for the Indian PAK FA, that may well be the case, but as it is under development, it is still an unknown quantity and its advantages/disadvantages remain largely theoretical. It also isn’t scheduled to be introduced until 2019, and given the nature of these things, probably not until a lot later. Right now, the Eurofighter is the best non Raptor aircraft money can by for the air to air role. India might be better off buying the Rafale as a multi-role, carrier based plane, but not if it wants the best air to air platform.
As I say, the Gripen and Rafale might give countries cheaper value or better suited to their specific needs (particularly Rafale’s carrier capability), but saying that they are better air superiority platforms is nonsense.
It might be an exageration to use the ‘Gloster Gladiator’ to ‘BF-109’ analogy, but I don’t think a ‘Hawker Hurricane’ vs ‘BF-109’ comparison would be too far off the mark...
The Gripen, a delta wing with canards, has a lower RCS than an F-18...?
After several additional posts, you admit that the Super Hornet has a smaller RCS than the Gripen.
Seems like we went through a lot of additional verbiage for nothing...
You asked if Gripen had lower RCS then F-18. Yes it has lower RCS then F-18. And it has slightly higher RCS then F/A-18E superhornet. Do you get it know?
Read my post again. The F/A-18C has an RCS that is nearly 6 times larger then the Gripen.
And against this very detailed and well prepared report all you have is your own nonsense about EF being faster and more “manouevarable”(sic).
And granted those are isolated example of EF being shot down in exercises but then again what does EF have to prove anything at all? EF has nothing except lots of empty promises on paper. As I said earlier its just a paper tiger. The point of citing those article is that EF does not rule he skies now, and it is EVEN LESS likely to rule the sky anytime in future.
As for PAK FA, the Russian are only next to the US when it come to aircraft engineering. The Pak Fa may not be an F-22 but it will still be a superlative fighter and will dominate any European fighter by a mile. Its no surprise most European countries still buys American fighters to protect against Russia.
If Gripen and EF are like Gloster Gladiator & BF-109, then PAK FA and EF would be like BF-109 and Sopwith Pup. At least the Sopwith Pup will be able to “see” the BF-109. Not sure the EF pilot would be that lucky.
I haven’t been able to download and read the report, as I have already mentioned. Even if this report does say that it is superior in every way, I take it with a pinch of salt. Pretty much every other source I have ever read has said that whilst the Rafale is arguably a more versatile multi-role aircraft, it cannot touch the EF as an air superiority fighter, both now and with potential future upgrades, and given that, it would take more than one source to convince me otherwise. Do you have any other correlating evidence to support this? I’m not dismissing the possibility out of hand, I’m just extremely sceptical, given what I have read from many other sources over several years...
More over....(and here is the kicker)....the future upgrade proposed for the EF is to turn it into a bomber and give it more ground strike capability. EF’s days as air superiority fighter is numbered.....
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_analysis/page3.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_analysis/page2.html
And in yet another mock combat the RAF Typhoons were beaten by Pakistani F-16 block52.
EF woe stories never seems to end.
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