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Paul Krugman: Economy under Obama in a Depression
Washington Examiner ^ | 6/11/12 | Charlie Spiering

Posted on 06/11/2012 9:27:14 AM PDT by Nachum

Economist Paul Krugman had bad news for liberals Netroots Nation on Saturday. During his keynote speech the New York Times columnist admitted that the United States economy was suffering a depression. "We don't have a formal definition, I'd say that a Depression is when things are down, when things are terrible for an extended period of time," Krugman said, reminding them that were even "official" periods of recovery during the Great Depression. "So it is again today," he said. "It's not as bad as the Great Depression - there's a winning slogan," he added cynically.

(Excerpt) Read more at campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: depression; economy; krugman; obama
About time somebody used the "D" word. Call it what it is.
1 posted on 06/11/2012 9:27:22 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


2 posted on 06/11/2012 9:29:02 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Nachum

Been in a coma?....Just wake up, Paul?..........


3 posted on 06/11/2012 9:31:39 AM PDT by Red Badger (Think logically. Act normally.................)
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To: Nachum

Recession = when your neighbor is unemployed.
Depression = when you’re unemployed.


4 posted on 06/11/2012 9:31:55 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All libs & most dems think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: Nachum

I have never believed a word Krugman said in the past, why should I start now?


5 posted on 06/11/2012 9:32:03 AM PDT by cardinal4 (Do I really need a /s tag?)
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To: Nachum

I contend that the term “Nobel” in front of the word “prize” has the worth of a two-day old roadkill - if the prize is associated with something other than science.

My two prime examples: Kook Krugman and the Cretin-in-Chief have received prizes and both are demonstrably sub par in intelligence and achievement.


6 posted on 06/11/2012 9:32:46 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: Nachum

WE ARE IN A DEPRESSION... WE HAVE BEEN IN A DEPRESSION AND WE MAY NEVER CLIMB OUR WAY OUT OF DEPRESSION.

LLS


7 posted on 06/11/2012 9:33:51 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Da Coyote

Don’t forget Mr. Chakra himself:

Algore has a Nobel too.


8 posted on 06/11/2012 9:38:01 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: Nachum

“’It’s not as bad as the great depression’ isn’t a great campaign slogan...”

Why isn’t it as bad as the great depression? What’s different this time around? Why, we didn’t let the market crash. We didn’t let things go down, we supported them, kept everything with it’s nose above water.

That’s great for those on the risky end of the curve for investments. We sneer sometimes at those in the pool of investment who have been lifted up to keep them from drowning.

Only problem is: They did it by flooding the market. The water’s rising for all of us, and there’s nothing left to ‘lift’ us up. We can’t ‘switch on the great works’ economy generator as we didn’t let all the inefficient companies die. We didn’t have wholesale culling of the union fed public employee unions - opening that market to lower wages and more employment, so that’s another anchor around our necks.

If Washington tomorrow decided to spend a trillion dollars to ‘bootstrap’ the economy, all that would happen is the same bad companies would get the same contracts they would have gotten before, only it’s being called stimulus now.

We have to let things get worse before they can have any hope of getting better. It means killing the beast called ‘public employee union’, it means culling out benefits, and returning welfare to where it belongs, a private social program run by service groups, including that embarrassment of standing in line for hours for free food.

We have to give people a reason to want to make things better. Or this slow flooding of the market will drown each and every one of us.


9 posted on 06/11/2012 9:38:20 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: kingu

Who are your favorite Congressmen?


10 posted on 06/11/2012 9:45:57 AM PDT by kenavi (Obama doesn't hate private equity. He wants to be it with our money.)
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To: LibLieSlayer

You may be giving up but not this Patriot!!


11 posted on 06/11/2012 9:47:07 AM PDT by 100American (Knowledge is knowing how, Wisdom is knowing when)
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To: Nachum
So, Mr. Krugman, your hero Keynes was wrong? Actually, Keynes admitted that government spending could go too far.
12 posted on 06/11/2012 9:51:18 AM PDT by Huskrrrr ( the will)
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To: carriage_hill

...and a recovery is when Obama loses his!!!


13 posted on 06/11/2012 9:52:05 AM PDT by mkboyce
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To: Nachum

Go blind squirrel, go!


14 posted on 06/11/2012 9:57:20 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: kenavi
I don't have any, actually. I think they've turned into the worst of the public employee unions. It takes a special kind of hubris to grant themselves retirement benefits - you don't retire from Congress, you fail to get elected there. You can choose not to run, but that's not retirement. Congress is NOT a career choice.

Worst is spousal benefits for retirement - hello? Can you be just a tiny bit less obvious in your embezzlement?

I'd love to see Congress actually reformed.

1) Members of Congress must maintain their primary residence in their home district or state. They are restricted from maintaining any type of ‘home’ outside of that primary residence.

2) Members of Congress are awarded a fixed salary, no matter what their position, no matter their numbers of years, no matter how many committees they run. That is the singular compensation - no retirement, no health benefits, etc. They can choose to purchase these out of their compensation.

3) All public airlines are required to provide (as available) seats on their aircraft for members of congress to travel from Washington DC to their home district, free of charge.

4) Conversion of one of the executive office buildings next to Congress into a hostel for members of congress to use while in session. They must return home each weekend and when the session ends.

5) Members of congress are forbidden from using any government vehicles, aircraft, etc for personal use. They may not skirt this rule by paying ‘fair market rates’ to use these publicly owned aircraft and cars. The exception is a motorpool at Congress where members of congress can check out vehicles for official business in and around the Washington DC area.

6) Lastly, all members of congress must use the same entry as the public does, going through the same checkpoints, searches and queues. Members of congress can think of this as a campaign opportunity to talk to the people they represent, or use the time to contemplate how stupid this whole security system is.

15 posted on 06/11/2012 9:57:50 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: mkboyce

Recession = when your neighbor is unemployed.
Depression = when you’re unemployed.
Recovery - 0bummer’s unemployed. You and the neighbor are back to work.

Perfect fit, m!


16 posted on 06/11/2012 10:00:06 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All libs & most dems think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: kenavi

” Who are your favorite Congressmen? “

John Adams...

(He may be the last Congresscritter ever documented to have actually read the Constitution..)

(Of course, he wrote it - and I’m betting he *didn’t* say “We have to pass it to find out what’s in it..”)


17 posted on 06/11/2012 10:11:24 AM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Da Coyote
I contend that the term “Nobel” in front of the word “prize” has the worth of a two-day old roadkill - if the prize is associated with something other than science.

It's a prize for keeping liberals as PC as possible. This year all non-science awards should go to Greece, Spain and Detroit - places that have marked the PC path of liberal perfection.

18 posted on 06/11/2012 10:13:45 AM PDT by GOPJ (Take your little hammer, little sickle and your scary red signs with a fist on it, and go home...)
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To: Nachum

Obama: The private sector is doing fine.

But then, Obama’s perspective is one that compares the economy of the U.S. against the likes of countries which he is best familiar with, like those of Africa. In comparison, the U.S. is many times better than that of Venezuela or Cuba or Greece or Italy or Spain or Ireland or North Korea or Kenya or Somalia. And so, when Obama looks at our economy, we are “doing fine”, but, he’s not looking at what this country once was or could be.


19 posted on 06/11/2012 10:14:21 AM PDT by adorno
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To: kingu

“Why isn’t it as bad as the great depression? What’s different this time around? Why, we didn’t let the market crash. We didn’t let things go down, we supported them, kept everything with it’s nose above water.”

No, actually, things would have been better then and now had we let things take their natural course. It wasn’t really a matter of letting the market crash back when. That was a surprise. We saw it coming more recently, and nevertheless allowed it to plummet—as if we could stop it—though not to the same low.

It is a falicy, anyway, that market crashes cause depressions. They don’t. They disrupt things, but the same capital, the same savings, in other words the same wealth is around before as after the crash. It only serves to change people’s thinking, and in many cases to change ownership of them. But the point is, even though it makes the ride bumpy it ultimately makes them better, not worse, because it clarifies the situation. It bursts bubbles, and so forth, so that you’re not wasting as much along unprofitable lines.

Had in 1929 and 2008 the U.S. government kept to its own business as it did in the 1890s and 1921 the economy would have corrected itself. It always does, and even now that’s what Washington is waiting around for it to do. How quickly it does so, however, depends upon how much it is messed with. During the Great Depression we messed with it more than we ever had before, what with the Smoot-Hawley tariff, the bank holiday, going off the domestic gold standard, and all the associated wonder falling under the term “new deal.” During this most recent recession we messed with it plenty; perhaps not so unprecedentedly, but in a sufficiently stupid manner.

Therein, though, lies the difference. What we’re doing now is old hat, and therefore leads to less regime uncertainty, the bain of the Roosevelt economy. Also, setting aside for the issue of savings, we are a vastly richer society now then we were then. Going from 50k a year to welfare...err, I mean unemployment “insurance” payments, is not so dramatic as going from a working family farm to starving to death. Also also, and relatedly, we redistribute more wealth than we did back then, and even if this makes for a fundamentally less free and sound economy it as well does make the drop-off less obvious. Oh, if only the nightly news had breadlines to broadcast (blaming Bush, of course, not the current administration).

To get back to savings for a moment, herein lies a big difference. Unlike back when both personal and government savings are at about zero, and we are only able to maintain our standard of living, such as it is, because the dollar for now is the world’s reserve currency. Back when, even after a decade of depression, people were able to dip into their pockets—largely involuntarily—to pay for WWII. We’d never be able to manage that now, though we do manage to pay for war-sized welfare. Bigger than that, actually, since our wars count for at most about 20 percent (that’s for all of defense, which, to be clear, the last few go-arounds included two wars and then some) of the budget compared to the nearly 80 percent spent on “social programs.”

All of which means there’s a depression bigger than ‘29-47 (or whatever it was, precisely) waiting in the vague future.


20 posted on 06/11/2012 10:30:07 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Nachum
FDR took Hoover's Recession and turned it into a 10 year Depression.

BHO has taken Bush's Recession and is turning it into a 10 year Depression.

Both FDR & BHO are students of Keynes. They will get the same results.


21 posted on 06/11/2012 10:30:24 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uncle Ike

“(He may be the last Congresscritter ever documented to have actually read the Constitution..)

(Of course, he wrote it”

Adams was not Congressman, unless you count the vice president and his tie-breaking vote as such, and he did not write the Constitution. I don’t think he was even in the country when it was written.


22 posted on 06/11/2012 10:36:13 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

Well, darn...

Of all of the Founding Fathers (who later went on to serve in Congress) I had to choose from to make my point, I had to pull the one out of my a$$ that didn’t...

Next time I’ll fact-check before posting... ;)


23 posted on 06/11/2012 10:41:42 AM PDT by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: Nachum; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; LMAO; ...

Maybe so but all Obama’s liberal expert economists agree that Obama’s depression would have been MUCH WORSE if he didn’t run up 4+ T $ of nation debt and spend it on his base public union supporters.

Re-Elect Obama 2012 because HIS depression could have been even worse.


24 posted on 06/11/2012 10:44:03 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is a liberal. Just watch him closely try to screw us.)
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To: cardinal4
I have never believed a word Krugman said in the past, why should I start now?

Hey, I agree with you.

But you know what they say about blind squirrels. This is one of those time.

25 posted on 06/11/2012 10:47:59 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Nachum
We agree, about the problem.

Where we differ, violently, is the solution.

Krugman believes taxing and spending will help it.

I believe taxing and spending will hurt it.

26 posted on 06/11/2012 10:52:49 AM PDT by Lazamataz (People who resort to Godwin's Law are just like Hitler.)
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To: kingu

“You can choose not to run, but that’s not retirement.”

I might agree, except that in some cases elections are formalities and they’d be certain to hold their seat for the 40th or whatever term had they not bowed out. Retirement is a perfectly acceptable term for that.

“Congress is NOT a career choice.”

Yes it is, as obviously many make a career out of it. I’m, not sure what you’re getting at here, exactly. Congressmen don’t decide on their own whether they’re going to be elected, although often enough for the ones who have been in there long enough election is all but guaranteed. But it’s not as if in other lines of work people unilaterally decide whether they’ll stay employed. The entity employing you, or if you’re self-employed the market, may decide to chuck you out of a job just as surely as the electorate may fail to re-elect a senator.


27 posted on 06/11/2012 11:00:52 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: carriage_hill

Recession = when your neighbor is unemployed.
Depression = when you’re unemployed.
Recovery = When Obama is unemployed.

Is that too much for a bumper sticker, I think not.


28 posted on 06/11/2012 11:04:14 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Nachum

I’ve been doing a little research on the “Third Way” movement and I am persuaded that the “Third Way” Democrats are moving to unseat Obama, if not at the convention, in 2016.

They may be thinking that it will be impossible for Romney to make much progress in the economy in four years, with the damage that Obama has done and besides, Romney is a Third Wayer, himself. But they are definitely moving to disavow Obama and the Obama supporters are having a fit.

The old Democrat leadership council didn’t go away, it morphed into The Third Way, with Evan Bayh playing an important role. They are the Hillary Clinton wing of the Democrat party, the triangulators, the compromisers, for whom the hard choices that result in compromise are simply considered “false choices.” (Jonah Goldberg - Liberal Fascism)

This is an important movement that most of us have been ignoring because we were so distracted by the over-reaching of the Obama administration on all fronts and the seeming unity of the Democrat party. It was an illusion. The Third Wayers were simply sitting back and waiting for him to fail because they knew he would.

It is the Third Way that the far left labels as “corporatists”. The far left fights the Third Way segment of the Democrat Party the same way that Republicans fight the Libertarians. The problem for the Democrats is that by pushing the far left agenda so hard, they pushed the middle of the road people right into the Republican voter block.

I’m pretty sure that Mitt Romney is a Third Way guy. His political record is just about a clear definition of the “Third Way”. Even his position on health care is a Third Way kind of compromise - Give the voters what they want. If you can’t beat them, join them. That’s what is meant by a “false choice”.

The only way to deal with Mitt Romney is to keep the pressure, don’t ever let up and let him know that he wasn’t elected to compromise with the left.


29 posted on 06/11/2012 11:08:54 AM PDT by Eva
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To: Eva
The only way to deal with Mitt Romney is to keep the pressure, don’t ever let up and let him know that he wasn’t elected to compromise with the left.

It's always worked so well in the past, hasn't it?

30 posted on 06/11/2012 11:12:22 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: tet68

BIG bumper sticker (edited):

Recession = Neighbor’s unemployed.
Depression = You’re unemployed.
Recovery = 0bummer’s unemployed.


31 posted on 06/11/2012 11:16:44 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All libs & most dems think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: Nachum
I just saw the Press Kid on TV and learned the new campaign word is The Great Recession.
32 posted on 06/11/2012 11:41:30 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Nachum

...well they’ve been trying very hard to get us to depression status, so I’m sure Krugman is very proud.

Liberals love poor people: why do you think they make so many of them?


33 posted on 06/11/2012 11:48:36 AM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: Tublecane
Yes it is, as obviously many make a career out of it. I’m, not sure what you’re getting at here, exactly. Congressmen don’t decide on their own whether they’re going to be elected, although often enough for the ones who have been in there long enough election is all but guaranteed. But it’s not as if in other lines of work people unilaterally decide whether they’ll stay employed. The entity employing you, or if you’re self-employed the market, may decide to chuck you out of a job just as surely as the electorate may fail to re-elect a senator.

A career choice: A career I choose to work towards and remain in through my own hard work. Not a career choice: Continued employment is directly related to a popularity contest held every two or six years.

Service as a representative or a senator was never created nor intended to be a 'full time job,' nor would it be if the federal government limited itself to the powers granted it by the constitution. It is by corrupting this ideal that many of these asinine and idiotic ideals keep pumping out of Washington, as people try to justify their extended efforts there.

As I said, I certainly view them as the worst of the worst when it comes to public employee unions, liberal or conservative.

34 posted on 06/11/2012 11:56:42 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: kingu

And all members of Congress be required to submit to random drug tests.


35 posted on 06/11/2012 12:20:34 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

No, it hasn’t worked out because George Bush had us fooled. Most of us didn’t believe that compassionate conservatism was essentially, The Third Way, but that is exactly what it was.


36 posted on 06/11/2012 12:36:18 PM PDT by Eva
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To: kingu

You have very clear ideas. Let congressmen be subject to all laws we are.


37 posted on 06/11/2012 1:31:43 PM PDT by kenavi (Obama doesn't hate private equity. He wants to be it with our money.)
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To: kingu

You have very clear ideas. Let congressmen be subject to all laws we are.


38 posted on 06/11/2012 1:32:02 PM PDT by kenavi (Obama doesn't hate private equity. He wants to be it with our money.)
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To: Red Badger

Paul lives and works in the same state as did Rip Van Winkle. It’s in the water. sd


39 posted on 06/11/2012 1:40:01 PM PDT by shotdog (I love my country. It's our government I'm afraid of.)
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To: shotdog

But RVW was drugged by elves...........oh, uh...nevermind..........


40 posted on 06/11/2012 1:42:20 PM PDT by Red Badger (Think logically. Act normally.................)
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To: Red Badger

Nah. It was the waters from the Hudson River. The elves were carrying water for..eeh ...never mind. sd


41 posted on 06/11/2012 1:53:34 PM PDT by shotdog (I love my country. It's our government I'm afraid of.)
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To: kenavi
Who are your favorite Congressmen?

You might just as well have asked who are your favorite Nazis, or favorite Al-Qaeda members.

42 posted on 06/11/2012 1:58:23 PM PDT by ssaftler (Obama 2008: "Hope and Change" Obama 2012: "Excuses and Blame")
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To: 100American

Please do not attempt to speak for me... I work 6 days a week and I have for almost 40 years and I presently run two businesses. I am telling it like it is and NOTHING in what I said says, “I quit”. We are in a depression... we have been in a depression and we may never get out of it. You seem to not understand just how tenuous the world economy is and how deeply in debt the EU is to our banking system, as well as 8.8 TRILLION dollars in debt to the Federal Reserve. Not one single leader in either party are talking about the kind of spending cuts and tax reductions that are necessary to save our economy... not one. They just talk about more actions as we saw under GW Bush... and that will not save our Republic... not this time.

LLS


43 posted on 06/11/2012 2:31:29 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: ssaftler

OK. Who are yours?


44 posted on 06/11/2012 5:17:07 PM PDT by kenavi (Obama doesn't hate private equity. He wants to be it with our money.)
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To: Nachum

Somebody just threw ‘Bammy under the bus....


45 posted on 06/11/2012 5:22:26 PM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: Red Badger
He's either off his meds or he had a fight with Obungler. We'll know if they kissed and made up if Krugman follows this up with his usual fawning.
46 posted on 06/11/2012 5:26:00 PM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: Tublecane
Had in 1929 and 2008 the U.S. government kept to its own business as it did in the 1890s and 1921 the economy would have corrected itself. It always does, and even now that’s what Washington is waiting around for it to do.

So, what's the difference between "The Great Depression" and "The Panic of 1929"?

Government intervention vs. inaction.

47 posted on 06/11/2012 5:48:08 PM PDT by okie01
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