Hawaii Verifies Obama’s Birth For Arizona Secretary Of State

Talking Points Memo ^ | May 22, 2012 | Nick Martin

[butterdezillion]

Exactly. Seems like if he was qualified to get a verification then he was qualified to get verification of the specific things he asked for. Why would they insist that he change what he ask for?

The things he asked for were specifically geared towards verifying that it was a LEGALLY VALID birth record. So why would they balk at verifying that? Could it be because any “verification” they would do would totally rely on a birth index which has specifically been altered to include legally non-valid records?

We need to see what really transpired. If I knew how to request the records I’d request it myself.

[philman_36]

My reason was that most people spouting ignorance have no desire to be corrected by contrary facts...
And yet, somehow, you managed an attempt at attaching and attributing to me said statement instead of the person actually making the statement.
Tell what ever tale you choose.

Have a nice day.

[philman_36]

Let me know if you’d like to see any of this and I’ll see if I can get to the links on my daughter’s computer.
Nah, don't trouble yourself. I've seen it before.
The full birth certificate isn't a public record and that's the point.

[BigGuy22]

"If I knew how to request the records I’d request it myself."
__

One of the lessons from Bennett's experience is that a big part of "how to request the records" is proving that you are authorized to receive them.

Do you think you can satisfy those requirements?

[little jeremiah]

It’s like being in a bad dream watching a Twilight Zone episode of someone having a weird nightmare.

[butterdezillion]

Nowhere does that state that the record in question is LEGALLY VALID.

Nothing in this statement rules out an amended and/or late birth certificate, which is legally non-valid.

I have no doubts that they’ve got a document that makes those claims. There are two issues above and beyond that, though - both of which I’ve been stating all along:

1. Is that document genuine? That would be known by auditing the record through microfilms, computer transaction logs, and forensic examination of the original.

2. Was the record late and/or amended? Previous responses by both the HDOH and former OIP Director Paul Tsukiyama indicated that it was.

Because of the HDOH’s own tampering with records (falsified 1960-64 birth index, altered BC#’s on certified records, and the alteration of the name on Virginia Sunahara’s birth record), an audit needs to be done.

That is what I’ve been saying all along.

[allmendream]

I had no such intention and it would be obvious to any but the brain dead that I was going by your statement that the law limiting access to vital birth records was passed a dozen years before 0bama was born - rather than being changed recently in order to “accommodate 0bama”.

But go ahead and make wile eyed accusations of lies and attempts at attribution if that is what is going to get you through your day.

[philman_36]

Interesting...
1. A birth certificate is on file with the Department of Health indicating that Barack Hussein Obama, II was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Note also that he didn't say that the CLB attached was "the real deal" and only that the information matched.

[BigGuy22]

“That is what I’ve been saying all along.”
__

I don’t doubt it for a minute.

But my question to you was, “Do you think you can satisfy those requirements?”

[philman_36]

Nowhere does that state that the record in question is LEGALLY VALID.
See 168. A very artfully worded response, IMO.

[Ronald_Magnus]

Bennett got NOTHING that hasn’t already been put out there. I thought the whole idea was to go to Hawaii and examine for themselves the BC and try and determine if it was a legit document. Bennett’s going to come out of this looking like a fool. ...And this guy is going to run for guv in 2014...Puleez.

[BigGuy22]

“Note also that he didn’t say that the CLB attached was “the real deal” and only that the information matched.”
__

That’s right — the purpose of the verification process is to confirm that the information on a purported official state document matches the information in Hawaii’s official records.

Once that’s established, the Full Faith and Credit clause (Article IV, Section 1 of the Constitution) takes over:

“Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.”

[butterdezillion]

But everything that’s on a COLB is. Including the BC#, any stamps indicating “LATE” or “ALTERED”, and any notations of what supporting documentation was provided for amendments or late registrations.

And if you look at what was in that “verification”, it was never claimed that the record was legally valid.

We know that the BC Obama presented was forged. If the content that HI has for him in their official “record on file” is the same as what Obama produced, then why did he have to forge anything?

Could be because the FORM they have the information in is not a long-form BC that looks like this, but is an incomplete BC with affidavits added later to complete the thing. That would explain why they talk about there being a birth certificate on file but when they talk about the contents they always refer to “the record”.

The certifying statement on what Obama produced specifically allows for this - that this is a copy OR ABSTRACT of a record on file.

Remember that Abercrombie talked about something “actually written down” and Fukino talked about something “half typed, half written”. Abercrombie told Mike Evans that he couldn’t find a birth certificate for Obama.

[philman_36]

I had no such intention and it would be obvious to any but the brain dead that I was going by your statement that the law limiting access to vital birth records was passed a dozen years before 0bama was born - rather than being changed recently in order to “accommodate 0bama”.
I didn't make any statement about any changes to accommodate him. That comment was made by another poster at @reply 100 as you well know.

I'll just put up what I actually said to compare it to what you think I said...

@#129...

BC’s were once available to anyone upon request in Hawaii.

Here is a pickable link (opens in new screen)...@www.capitol.hawaii.gov - /hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/

Here is the timeline for - §338-18 Disclosure of records
[L 1949, c 327, §22; RL 1955, §57-21; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 30, §2; HRS §338-18; am L 1977, c 118, §1; am L 1991, c 190, §1; am L 1997, c 305, §5; am L 2001, c 246, §2]

So since at least 1949 there have been restrictions in Hawaii on disclosure.

Help me out here with your assertion. What decade were you talking about?

But go ahead and make wile eyed accusations of lies and attempts at attribution if that is what is going to get you through your day.
All I have to do is post what I actually said. The rest is your own doing, not mine.

[philman_36]

Bennett got NOTHING that hasn’t already been put out there.
He didn't get confirmation that the CLB attached was "the real deal", only that the information contained therein matched. Bennett got, IMO, nothing more than an artfully worded response.

That is something in its own right.

[exit82]

I am trying to look on the bright side of this.

Now there is official confirmation that the birth “record” in Hawaii lists Barack Obama Sr. as Zippy’s dad(one of the items for which verification was requested by Bennett).

Now there is offical recognition of the information that proves Obama is not a natural born citizen.

[philman_36]

...it was never claimed that the record was legally valid.
Yes, I'm aware of that.
I value this "response" to be on the same par as toilet paper.
All it's good for is wiping one's backside.

But hey, when you give someone wriggle room, like Bennett did, they're always going to take it.

[butterdezillion]

I wasn’t talking about requesting the records for Obama. What I want to see at this point is the communications between Bennett and the Hawaii people. How did his request have to be changed?

What I can see that differs between Bennett’s request and what he received is that this request was not fulfilled by the final response:

“Additionally, please verify that the attached copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files.”

What they got was just that the INFORMATION on what Obama posted is the same as what they have. They wouldn’t say that it is a true and accurate representation of the original record in their files.

Fake but accurate. That’s what they seem to be claiming.

They also say that the information contained in the vital record on file was used to verify the facts of the vital event. IOW, they are claiming that what is sworn in the record swears that the facts are true. Well duh. The record verifies the record. Notice that THEY nowhere state that these ARE the facts of birth. Thay can’t legally say that if the birth record is REALLY half written (supporting affidavits) and half typed (incomplete BC form originally filed with the local registrar by Madelyn Dunham) as Fukino indicated.

Obama posted a forgery because it was a “composite” of an incomplete BC and affidavits required to complete the BC much later.

Sort of like his “composite girlfriends”. Everything about this guy is manufactured.

And the HDOH’s unwillingness to say that “the attached copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama is a true and accurate representation of the original record in your files” is an admission by Alvin Onaka that he has known all along that Obama posted a forgery. “Fake but accurate”. It just doesn’t reveal that the BC is late, amended, and relies on affidavits to fill in what was missing because Obama wasn’t examined by a Hawaii doctor in 1961.

Look at what Onaka actually says that HE verifies. He verifies that there is a birth certificate “indicating” that Obama was born in HI. He just lists details without saying what HE verifies about them. And then he verifies that “the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Mr. Obama that you attached with your request matches the original record in our files.”

Below that he “certifies” that “the information contained in the vital record on file with the Department of Health was used to verify the facts of the vital event”.

Used by WHO to verify the facts of the vital event, Mr. Onaka? By you? You never said that you verified the actual facts of the vital event. The only thing you actually put your name as verifying was that a birth certificate is on file “indicating” that Obama was born in HI. There was no sentence clarifying what #2-12 represented - what you personally verify, or what the birth certificate CLAIMS, whether accurate and/or legally valid or not.

[butterdezillion]

Very CAREFULLY worded response.

This is the same thing as Fukino’s July 2009 press release. Interesting that Fuddy wouldn’t do this. They made Onaka be the fall guy.

[philman_36]

Well stated. Like I said...on par with toilet paper.