Posted on 05/07/2012 8:41:01 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
“Jesus Christ is God’s Son, spiritually and physically. He calls Him Father, He prays to Him. We are to pray to Him,, God the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, His Son.
God’s voice was heard at Christ’s baptism, coming from Heaven while He was in the water. The Holy Sirit also descended. Three seperate entities/Gods. A simliar experience occurred at the mount of transfiguration. The martyr Stephen saw Christ sitting next to God, he didn’t say He saw Christ and God sitting as one on the throne, Christ was on the Father’s right hand, seperate.”...
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Jeff, I appreciate your reply. There were five statements
about Moromonism. You replied to four with one a direction
to your words in your testimony at the link.
Trinitarian belief is not up in the air for anyone to believe as they wish. It is basic belief required for all Christians. This is why the Church does not recognize Mormon Baptism because of the Mormon rejection of the Trinity. Water Baptism said in the name of the Trinity is not an option either, it is a requirement for salvation. God is so loving, maybe, the Baptism of desire covers you all.
YES MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THE LDS JESUS WAS CREATED, NOT ETERNAL.
Jesus states “I AM” in Scripture, He is saying I am God, always was, always will be. Jesus is fully God and fully man. He is consubstantial which means “one in being” the same essence, substance as the Father.
You stated it three times in the full post, Jesus is the Son of God, never once did you say He is God.
Your complaint to the moderators isn’t fair. The thread
subject is about Santorum endorsing Romney.
I replied to say, I will never support Romney because of
his actions and his faith, they are not Christian.
A discussion about what liberals object to...”faith and politics” is needed because of the two Presidential candidates, neither one is Christian. This where the big ERROR helps Liberals, disbelievers, their definition of separation of Church and State. The founders meant do not discriminate because of a person’s faith, not faith is not a part of the state. Ignore God, disobey Him and how can He bless you?
A man’s morals, his virtue, where do they come from...God!
The discussion is fine.
Maybe not; but it is typical.
When we so few ANTI's start picking on MORMONism, and it's supporters cannot bring any data to bear into the discussions; they run to the Mods for relief like a wuss at recess complaining to the teacher.
Jesus is a member of the Godhead. He is my God and Savior. He has atoned for my sins, was perfect, and has saved me. He also has a Father who is also a member of the Godhead and God. Christ clearly recognized this and spoke of it often in the New Testament.
It is very plain in the New Testament that God the Father is Christ’s Father and was considered as such by Him. Also, that the Holy Ghost existed seperately at the time of Christ and had the mission I referred to earlier.
The Old Testament infers this as well. We believe, as you do that Christ created the earth. We believe He did so at the direction of the Father. Several times in Genesis the plural is used when refering to them. For example, when speaking of Adam and His transgression in the Garden, they say, “The man has become as one of us.”
The same terminology is used in several places there in Genesis and elsewhere.
So, our interpretation (and we believe it is through inspiration and revelation) is consistant with the Bible. We believe that the “Three in One” adopted in those councils is the interpretation that is not consistant and is one of many reasons the Church had to be restored.
We believe what the Bible plainly teaches, not what was decided by men in a council one or two hundred years later.
We also believe that the truth of these things will come forward in due time, particularly at Christ’s return. And having gotten that wrong will not matter if you have accepted jEsus Christ with all of your heart. He will teach all of us at that day what we need to know because He knows the heart and will not let such a thing as an improper interpretation stand between those who love Him and His love and grace.
Hope that helps you understand what we believe...even if we differ.
These videos may help you understand why you are actually not getting answers to your questions.
Quote: Robert Millet -
“As Latter-Day Saints, you already know more about God and Christ and the Plan of Salvation, than anyone who will attack you, take my word for it and you and I should take some degree of confidence in that.”
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zA-rZQB-xQ
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MRlJ3q39Gw&feature=related
“So, our interpretation (and we believe it is through inspiration and revelation) is consistant with the Bible. We believe that the “Three in One” adopted in those councils is the interpretation that is not consistant and is one of many reasons the Church had to be restored.”
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Please share the “councils, you are referring to, there’s
a history of Catholic Councils.
Jeff, Jesus said I will not leave My Church in Matt 16:18, Satan will not overcome My Church. The Joseph Smith talk of a “restored” Church makes Our Lord a liar. Our Lord is God, He sees all of time, all of history, the present and the future.
You can’t say the “councils” were wrong and the Mormon interpretation of the Bible is correct because the same
authority, the Church canonized Scripture. You wouldn’t have your Bible to look to without that authority.
How the Canon of the Bible (the official catalogue of inspired books) was officially declared.
All books that were considered for the Cannon, but not included were called Apocrypha, and thus declared not inspired.
362 A.D. Catholic Church’s Council of Rome defines the Canon of Holy Scripture.
382 POPE DAMASUS issues a listing of the present OT and NT Canon of 73 books
383 Saint Jerome translates the Latin Vulgate from Greek & Hebrew
393 Council of Hippo (North Africa) approves the present Canon of 73 books
397 Council of Constantinople produces first bound Bible (the Vulgate: previously, all
were separate books)
397 Council of Carthage (North Africa) approves the same OT and NT canon
405 Pope Saint Innocent I approves the Canon again and closes it (with 73 books)
YES MORMONISM TEACHES THAT THE LDS GOD WAS ONCE A MAN WHO EARNED HIST GODHEAD STATUS.
“Remeber what Paul taught in Romans 10 and what Christ taught in Matthew. We believe those things and believe God in fact wants us to become like Him because He wants the very best for us and He has it. He loves us perfectly and wants us to have His perfect existance....
That as He created and brought us forth...His own children...and that He would have us do the same thing some day.
Now, Lorenzo Snow, based on a sermon Joseph Smith preached back in the late 1830s or 1840 came up with that couplet to describe what he felt Jospeph Smith was teaching based on these principles I have just described.
To us, these things are holy, special, and glorious and represent the will of a perfectly loving Father in Heaven. We understand how some others, particularly some of those versed in theologian schools, feel about these doctrines. They react to them almost precisely as the Pharisees reacted when Christ proclaimed directly to them that He was God’s Son.”
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Christians believe Our Lord was always God and always will be God.
Jeff, you are careful but you say it, we become the “same” like God. No, we will always remain the created, only God is divine. In His love God grants gifts, special charisms to holy people in this world and to those in Heaven. At the Final Judgment, the faithful will receive “glorified” bodies but we do not become Gods.
Thank you,
Spooky.
The gentleman on the first video states: “I am going ask
the question they should of asked.”
It was in reference to Mormons becoming Gods. I wonder if
Romney uses this tactic to avoid questions about Mormonism?
There is a recent video, Romney got very upset at one
reporter’s question about Mormonism. Mitt is afraid people
will find out what Mormonism preaches.
mormonism just gives me the shivers. For a reason that makes no logical sense, my lds family tells me everything. One of my uncles called me a “primitive”, I think that mean I am to stupid to understand the inner workings of mormonism.
Everything is on the internet these days, and it is scary.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Your church publishes:
The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
- We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
- We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
- We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
- We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
- We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
- We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
- We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
- We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.- We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may
- We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
- We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
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Since the above was written by ONE man, one or two hundred years ago; your church REALLY needs to update #8; as there are MANY other things that it ‘considers’ to be the Word of GOD; right?
You sure had better hope so!!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
It's too bad Sandy is gone. She would just LOVE the 'it mattereth not' part!
One CANNOT fight emotionalism with logic.
For MORMONs; a 'burning busom' trumps EVERYTHING.
"I got an answer!" is the answer for everything.
And then the doubts start coming.
Except for all the artifacts they have dug up at hill Cumorah.
They are keeping those tucked away in a vault under Temple Square®.
For me the analogy when I heard of Santorum's endorsement was the Star Trek TNG episode where all of the adults start playing the addicting, brainwashing video game; and it is only Wesley and his young friend who are left sane enough to save the Enterprise. Santorum kept telling us he was going to start playing the ORomney game. I just thought he would at least wait until after the convention, since there still is a viable candidate in the race (Ron Paul). Guess he didn't mean it when he said that Romney was the "worst" Republican in the country to put up against BHO.
You can bet that Obama is not ignoring the Mormom elephant in the room. I am sure that he already has his handpicked minions set up to destroy Mitt because of his Mormonism. They will be far enough removed from BHO for BHO to deny all knowledge, but prominent enough to influence the masses about the “Evil Cult” of Mormonism. BHO just can’t wait until the GOP is stupid enough to sew this one up so he can start the attack. Can’t do it too early, or the people might wake up to the lion’s den they are entering.
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