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Hatch didn't make it he has to run in Primary!!!!
Fox News | 4/21/2012 | taildragger

Posted on 04/21/2012 12:33:46 PM PDT by taildragger

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To: newzjunkey

“Liljenquist....... He’s only been in office 3 years... trust but verify.
******************************************************
Yes, he’s young but has proven himself to be a true conservative—one who truly wants to cut the size of government and who is not afraid of going against the establishment Republicans to do that. I wish I lived in Utah so I could vote in the upcoming primary.


151 posted on 04/21/2012 5:12:58 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: null and void
I assume you are not advocating shooting Mormons.

With virtual bullets, all I can do is shoot holes in the heresy of MORMONism.

152 posted on 04/21/2012 5:13:16 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: null and void
I assume you are not advocating shooting Mormons.

Nah; but I canNOT speak for any relatives of the ill-fated FAncher party.

153 posted on 04/21/2012 5:14:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: DestroyLiberalism

I apologize if you took offense to my questioning your sincerity in asking why so many Freepers would really like to see Hatch retire happily to enjoy the rest of his golden years. All the reasons already posted by me, as well as in the list posted by GingerC on Post #95 in this thread, I thought were pretty much common knowledge to the politically aware.

While the “RINO” appelation is one I don’t use or even like, (means too many different things to different people IMO) it was only used directly on Hatch two times in this 150-plus post thread, and the reasons you have been given already for wanting Hatch replaced should persuade you that maybe they are onto something.

Regarding the ratings, why not ask Arlen Specter how that posing as a conservative to get yourself elected works, when you vote what looks like 90% of the time as conservative (there are procedural ways and tricks used all the time used to hide and conceal your real positions as recorded in “votes” on legislation) but when it really, really counts, say one in ten times, you betray the conservative cause - then say all innocently “maybe I made a mistake on that one” - see Hatch and his explanation of his TARP vote if you want a specific on that.

If there was ever a time to move some of the Roosevelt generation out and give one of Liljenquist’s generation a chance to see what they can do in the US Senate - we already know what Hatch and his generation did - this year is it.


154 posted on 04/21/2012 5:15:14 PM PDT by ngat
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To: null and void
Methinks you doth protest a wee bit too much.

Too bad.


 
 
 
Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
 
 
Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
 
 
1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
 
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.
 
 
Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
 
 
2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.
 
 
1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
 
 
1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
 
 
1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.
 
 
1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
 
 
2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
 
 
 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
 
 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
 
Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
 
 
Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
 
 
Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
 
 
 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.
 
 
 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 
 
2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.



155 posted on 04/21/2012 5:15:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Magic Fingers

I just waited ‘til the beating of the bush stopped, and out popped this...


156 posted on 04/21/2012 5:16:52 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Magic Fingers
...having worked with and supervised quite a few Mormons...

Invite any of them to church?

157 posted on 04/21/2012 5:17:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: cripplecreek

In his speech he talked about how he was a tough old bird. He was visibly PISSED! Shut the HATCH!


158 posted on 04/21/2012 5:19:19 PM PDT by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: taildragger

Go home Hatch .... Pick 1 but light a schuck up on outta here .


159 posted on 04/21/2012 5:22:49 PM PDT by Ben Bolt
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To: bert
AKA Christian Taliban

Ah...

Licked your wounds enough to get into the fray; eh??



160 posted on 04/21/2012 5:23:17 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jim Robinson
You, my friend, can be replaced.

No!

Not Bert!

He's the best thing since Resty!!

161 posted on 04/21/2012 5:24:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Enterprise

Nothing irritates me faster than an arrogant politician who thinks he owns the seat.


162 posted on 04/21/2012 5:30:41 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Elsie

“Invite any of them to church?”

Why, have you?


163 posted on 04/21/2012 5:33:08 PM PDT by Magic Fingers (Political correctness mutates in order to remain virulent.)
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To: cripplecreek

Not only arogant, but Orrin Hatch whines when he speaks! JHonestly, my own kids didn’t have that whiney edge to their voices, even when in full “pre-tantrum” mode! (Then again, they knew that “I do NOT DO TANTRUM—so do NOT waste your whining on me!”


164 posted on 04/21/2012 5:35:01 PM PDT by MagUSNRET (I have always been proud of my country, it is my government that I am ashamed of!)
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To: Longbow1969

You exposed your hidden agenda. It is YOU who introduced the religion of Hatch into this thread. It is plain you want to get more argument going so you can degrade the osters and Freerepublic. You jerk, you’re the one trying to start something. You’ve remained stealthy, up until lately. Outed yourself this time ...


165 posted on 04/21/2012 5:40:43 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: GingerC

Great post (#95).

Thanks.


166 posted on 04/21/2012 5:43:11 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: Elsie; Jim Robinson
He's the best thing since Resty!!

Did you have to bring that up? Now I won't be able to sleep tonight. LOL

167 posted on 04/21/2012 5:51:24 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: MHGinTN

Well said!

They have great osters down at the Oyster Bar in SLC.


168 posted on 04/21/2012 5:58:02 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: kitchen

No kidding. Very good points. In this world today us old bastards can’t even kite checks anymore.


169 posted on 04/21/2012 6:09:35 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: DestroyLiberalism

I have no idea what you believe regarding embryonic stem cells and ‘hartvesting’ embryos for their body parts, but here is the position Hatch has repeatedly taken. He states flatly that an embryo is not human until it implants in a human body. of course that position leaves a huge gap in logic and science is int he process of exploiting such gaps that hatch has become notorious for. Nearly a decade ago the Japanese embryo researchers were able to gestate a goat fetus to birth age in an artificial womb. When (not if, when) hscientists do this with a human embryo, what will Orrin Hatchling’s position look like then? If it were possible for Orrin to lay that idiocy off on ignorance, well we could forgive his stupidity. But ten years ago Orrin was one of more than two dowzen Senators to whom a lengthy explanation of embryonic life was sent, and he has been updated regularly on the developments in cloning, embryonic stem cell exploitation, and abortion. Orrin Hatch is duplicitous, in the main.


170 posted on 04/21/2012 6:17:46 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
You exposed your hidden agenda. It is YOU who introduced the religion of Hatch into this thread. It is plain you want to get more argument going so you can degrade the osters and Freerepublic. You jerk, you’re the one trying to start something. You’ve remained stealthy, up until lately. Outed yourself this time ...

Oh bull. There are several posters here that are decidedly anti-Mormon and post constantly. One in particular has claimed that just being a Mormon makes one liberal. These people then go on to demand a list of national political figures that are Mormon as proof that Mormons can't be conservative. Never mind that many local level Mormon politicians are conservative, never mind that there are many Mormon Tea Party's folks, and now never mind that a conservative Mormon has pushed Hatch into a primary. No these people are on an anti-Mormon crusade any anyone that reads these forums will see it very quickly. The people that post this stuff are not fooling anyone - mostly it is massive cut and paste jobs slamming the LDS/Mormon Church. They hate Mormons, or Mormonism if people would prefer it put like that.

Many of us have pointed out that the problem with Romney is that he isn't a conservative, not that he is Mormon. But there are those who plainly dislike him primarily because he is a Mormon. I can only guess that there are a certain number of members/people who have a high disdain for Mormons because they consider (and openly call) themselves Christians. That is what I think is at the heart of this.

171 posted on 04/21/2012 6:22:32 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969

Do you think Milt’s MormonISM will be exposed to such an extent by the media that moderates and many religious people will not vote for him?


172 posted on 04/21/2012 6:25:45 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: taildragger
I hope Utah Tea Partiers come out to the primary in record numbers.

HATCH MUST GO!

173 posted on 04/21/2012 6:26:15 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: MHGinTN
Do you think Milt’s MormonISM will be exposed to such an extent by the media that moderates and many religious people will not vote for him?

Without a doubt. I know some Mormons who are concerned about what the MSM is going to do to the Mormon church. There are a lot of things about Mormons that Americans don't know. I think that "I'm a Mormon" ad campaign was an attempt to soften the upcoming blow to their church if Romney gets the nomination.
174 posted on 04/21/2012 6:35:51 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: MHGinTN
Do you think Milt’s MormonISM will be exposed to such an extent by the media that moderates and many religious people will not vote for him?

Heck yeah, the media is going to suddenly decide they need to really dig down and investigate the Mormon religious. You better believe that is what they are going to try. If there is any chance Hussein is going to lose, they are going to rip Willard's church to pieces. All done disingenuously of course since the real goal is just getting Obama re-elected.

But the fact remains, that will not be a deciding issue for most people despite what the press/Democrat campaign has to say. There is zero reason for conservatives to be attacking Mormons. Mitt Romney deserved all the criticism in the world for being a RINO chameleon, but there simply isn't any reason to attack his faith from our side.

Now the guy is going to be the nominee. It is what it is. No one here wanted this outcome, but there are simply not enough primary voters who agree with us. I have other theories why it worked out this way (namely the possible late entrance of Palin in the race encouraged all her supporters to tear up every other potential competitors she might face because they thought they were helping clear the field - this applied particularly Perry). Anyway, it's done. Our gripe with Romney should be about his lack of conservative credentials, not because he is a Mormon.

175 posted on 04/21/2012 6:36:20 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: taildragger
Hatch sponsored an Amendment that would have killed Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution! SHAME! SHAME ! SHAME!

The Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment, also known as the Hatch Amendment, is a United States constitutional amendment proposed in July 2003 by Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) to...

repeal the natural born citizen clause prohibiting citizens who were naturalized from holding the office of President or Vice President of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Opportunity_to_Govern_Amendment

176 posted on 04/21/2012 6:39:16 PM PDT by wintertime (Reforming a government K-12 school is like reforming an abortion center.)
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To: Theodore R.
Hatch hopefully will say something “smart” now that will sink him in the primary.

He's arrogant enough that I think he could. He's a huge fan of Hollywood and quite a few liberals, and he doesn't understand why Tea Party folks frown upon that.
177 posted on 04/21/2012 6:40:09 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: Longbow1969

I feel sad that the following will go right over your head, but I do it for the folks reading along on this thread.

It is precisely that Milt is a Mormon high priest in a cult that the media can exploit his religious beliefs to help little barry bastard. Therefore your comment that, “Our gripe with Romney should be about his lack of conservative credentials, not because he is a Mormon” is naive at best.


178 posted on 04/21/2012 6:42:38 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
It is precisely that Milt is a Mormon high priest in a cult that the media can exploit his religious beliefs to help little barry bastard.

And there it is right there. You just made my point. You believe "Milt is a Mormon high priest in a cult". I, and the vast majority of people, can accept "Milt" was a Bishop in a Mormon Church that has been established and reasonably accepted by the public for a very long time now. I do not think his religion will end up being that big a deal. The left with try simply because they'll throw any chuck of mud they find and hope something sticks, but I don't think that tactic will work.

Some of the posters here, and perhaps that includes you, just don't like Mormons - fine, I will say just don't like Mormonism. That IS really what they/you are getting hung up on. And from the best I can tell what this is really all about is that Mormons dare call themselves Christians. For some evangelicals it does seem to be a thorn in their side that engenders a lot of loathing. Fortunately, for the vast majority of conservatives and Republicans, this election will be far more about beating Hussein than it will be about caring a whole lot about whether Romney is Mormon.

179 posted on 04/21/2012 6:55:51 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: wintertime

Oddly, for all practical purposes the Hatch Amendment is now in the Constitution, a document which means so little to so many “Americans”.


180 posted on 04/21/2012 6:58:44 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Past is prologue: The American people again let us down in this election cycle.)
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To: Theodore R.

You’re thinking of Congressman Jason Chaffetz, who wasn’t ever “related” to Michael Dukakis, but his father was married to Kitty Dickson before she married Dukakis and took his name (Congressman Chaffetz is a product of his father’s second marriage). Chaffetz decided to run for reelection to the House.


181 posted on 04/21/2012 7:33:11 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
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To: Longbow1969; MHGinTN; Elsie
You believe "Milt is a Mormon high priest in a cult". I, and the vast majority of people, can accept "Milt" was a Bishop in a Mormon Church that has been established and reasonably accepted by the public for a very long time now. I do not think his religion will end up being that big a deal.

Here we go...Longbow continously operating as an apologist for the Mormon church.

Some of the posters here, and perhaps that includes you, just don't like Mormons - fine, I will say just don't like Mormonism.

This is like people saying that they don't like homosexuals just because they oppose the homosexual agenda.

It shows that you judge people's inward motivations -- including (by extension) those who oppose the homosexual agenda.

People can oppose both Mormonism & the homosexual agenda -- and love (albeit a tough love) Mormons.

I am a descendent from a Mormon leader. I love ALL my Mormon relatives. And I've said it repeatedly on these threads that the Mormons are not our enemies...as the apostle Paul says, we fight NOT vs. flesh & blood (Eph. 6:12).

But make no doubt about it...the apostle Paul & others told us as believers to in no uncertain terms oppose false shepherds, legalism & counterfeit Christianity (Acts 20:28-31; 2 Cor. 10:3-5; Titus 1:9-10; Jude 3; Galatians' numerous passages; numerous passages in Acts' teen). chapters, etc.)

If you're going to continue to judge people's inward motivations ("hate"), then please explain how you are able to psycho-analyze complete strangers...or by what Magic 8-ball device you gather your conjectures...

182 posted on 04/21/2012 7:35:49 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Magic Fingers

KI didn’t work with them.


183 posted on 04/21/2012 7:41:41 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Magic Fingers

I didn’t work with them.


184 posted on 04/21/2012 7:41:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Longbow1969
The people that post this stuff are not fooling anyone - mostly it is massive cut and paste jobs slamming the LDS/Mormon Church.

Do you leave out the FACT that the C&P is from MORMON official sources for a reason?

185 posted on 04/21/2012 7:43:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Longbow1969
No one here wanted this outcome, but there are simply not enough primary voters who agree with us.

SURE there are!

They just didn't get all this info BEFORE they voted in the primaries.

They'll get it now; though.

186 posted on 04/21/2012 7:45:07 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Longbow1969
I do not think his religion will end up being that big a deal.

Then you probably hold ALL religions to be fairly equal and any will get a person into GOD's everlasting presense.

187 posted on 04/21/2012 7:46:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Longbow1969
And from the best I can tell what this is really all about is that Mormons dare call themselves Christians.

Well; there IS that; but the LDS hypocracy of not 'allowing' others, who believe in the Book of MORMON and actually FOLLOW more MORMON scripture than the SLC bunch do, to call THEMSELVES 'mormon' is a bit galling (and telling) too.


Media Letter   
26 June 2008 — Salt Lake City  (http://newsroom.lds.org/additional-resource/media-letter)

*The following is a letter from Elder Lance B. Wickman, General Counsel of the Church to publishers of major newspapers, TV stations and magazines. It was sent out on Tuesday, June 24, 2008.




Recent events have focused the media spotlight on a polygamous sect near San Angelo, Texas, calling itself the “Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” As you probably know, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has absolutely no affiliation with this polygamous sect. Decades ago, the founders of that sect rejected the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were excommunicated, and then started their own religion. To the best of our knowledge, no one at the Texas compound has ever been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Unfortunately, however, some of the media coverage of the recent events in Texas has caused members of the public to confuse the doctrines and members of that group and our church. We have received numerous inquiries from confused members of the public who, by listening to less than careful media reports, have come to a grave misunderstanding about our respective doctrines and faith. Based on these media reports many have erroneously concluded that there is some affiliation between the two – or even worse, that they are one and the same.

Over the years, in a careful effort to distinguish itself, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has gone to significant lengths to protect its rights in the name of the church and related matters. Specifically, we have obtained registrations for the name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Mormon,” “Book of Mormon” and related trade and service marks from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and corresponding agencies in a significant number of foreign countries.

We are confident that you are committed to avoiding misleading statements that cause unwarranted confusion and that may disparage or infringe the intellectual property rights discussed above. Accordingly, we respectfully request the following:

  1. As reflected in the AP Style Guide, we ask that you and your organization refrain from referring to members of that polygamous sect as “fundamentalist Mormons” or “fundamentalist” members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  2. We ask that, when reporting about this Texas-based polygamous sect or any other polygamous group, you avoid either explicitly or implicitly any inference that these groups are affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  3. On those occasions when it may be necessary in your reporting to refer to the historical practice of plural marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that you make very clear that the Church does not condone the practice of polygamy and that it has been forbidden in the Church for over one hundred years. Moreover, we absolutely condemn arranged or forced “marriages” of underage girls to anyone under any circumstances.

Stated simply, we would like to be known and recognized for whom we are and what we believe, and not be inaccurately associated with beliefs and practices that we condemn in the strongest terms. We would be grateful if you could circulate or copy this letter to your editorial staff and to your legal counsel.

We thank you for your consideration of these important matters.

Sincerely,

Lance B. Wickman

General Counsel

188 posted on 04/21/2012 7:49:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Longbow1969
We would be grateful if you could circulate or copy this letter to your editorial staff and to your legal counsel.

We thank you for your consideration of these important matters.

Sincerely,

Lance B. Wickman

General Counsel


BNah...

No hidden pressure at all here...

189 posted on 04/21/2012 7:50:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
...or by what Magic 8-ball device you gather your conjectures...

Say the Secret Word...





THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9 And it came to passthat the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to passthat as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11 And it came to passthat we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
21 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
22 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
23 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.
 

190 posted on 04/21/2012 7:52:43 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
You folks DID notice who WROTE the above; didn't you??


 
1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass   I, Nephi,did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
7 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also,   I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
18 And it came to pass that as  I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
21 Now it came to pass that  I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
22 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
23 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
28 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that  I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.


191 posted on 04/21/2012 7:53:47 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
MASSIVE C&P job coming!!

(It had to come to pass; ya see: it was NEPHI's fault.)



 
 
 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
  16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now  it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.


192 posted on 04/21/2012 7:55:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; Longbow1969; fishtank
Aren’t there a bunch of FR posters running around spamming threads with anti-Mormon junk claiming that being a Mormon alone makes one a liberal. (Longbow1969)

Well; we are STILL waiting for a MORMON on the National scene that ISN'T a LIBERAL to be produced. Do YOU have one for us? (Elsie)

Yes, Fishtank pointed out a few days that we've yet to see a nationally known conservative Mormon pol.

Why is that?

193 posted on 04/21/2012 8:00:46 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Longbow1969; lonevoice; taildragger; svcw; greyfoxx39
Aren’t there a bunch of FR posters running around spamming threads with anti-Mormon junk claiming that being a Mormon alone makes one a liberal [Longbow1969]

No.

I have plenty of Mormon relatives who are conservative.

Maybe you can find some of those FR posters on this thread and ask them. Surely you don't mean for taildragger to answer for others, do you? If you don't see any of the FR posters on this thread to whom you're referring, maybe ping them here so they see your questions. Otherwise, you look like someone who enjoys going around kicking rhetorical anthills just for the helluvit. [Lonevoice, post #37]

So...Lonevoice is right...show us which postings you're referencing...'cause otherwise -- if you can't -- then that would show you love putting words in other posters' mouths...

Being Mormon doesn't make somebody automatically an all-out liberal or a liberal issue-in, issue-out, or whatever label you wish to pin...

What it does tend to make in the socio-political & religious realm is one of two things...
...(a) a legalist...
...Or (b), for those Mormons wanting to move away from at least its perceived legalism as lived out before society, its tends to breed a wishy-washy waffleism in wich their foundations are quickly reduced to quicksand for reasons of convenient expediency.

I don't know Romney's spirituality as applied to (a) -- how he lives his relationship with God...that's for God to know...[I certainly, though, can quote you chapter & verse on the legalism of Mormon leadership and MormonISM...]

As for (b), Romney has a long track record...and so does the Mormon church.

If people want to understand how Mormonism's approach to the socio-political realm at the local level, people need to read these two articles (the first written by a Mormon; the second by an ex-Mormon):

* Mitt Romney mirrors his Mormon church [Lds writer says Romney flip-flops 'cause Lds church has/does]
*
Who is Mitt Romney? [Ex-Lds author reveals why Mitt's wishy-washy culture waffles & flip-flops]

In the first linked article above, Mormon Neal Chandler highlights how in the 19th century...
* Mormons forced communism upon its people -- and then not (United Order)
* Adhered to theocracies under its first two "prophets" -- and then slowly drew back
* Said polygamy was a condition of the highest degree of glory -- and then not
* Encourage its Utah Territory voters to be Democrats -- and then told whole groups of people wholesale to "balance it out" as Republicans as statehood approached
* Excluded blacks -- and then late in the 20th century not

From the second article linked above: What makes Mitt the kind of person he is — ruthlessly opportunistic, dishonest, insincere, willing to say anything for advantage, lacking in conscience, preoccupied with appearance, etc., on the one hand, yet squeaky clean, family-oriented, disciplined, boring, and predictable, on the other? My new e-book, A Mormon Story, sheds light on the culture that produced Mitt Romney.

Good question. (It's one I've raised -- and answered numerous times on various FR threads)

The answer, says this ex-Mormon in the book referenced above is: (From the article): The book reveals a value system that ultimately has no absolutes, other than the need to conform to deep-seated, highly-controlling authoritarianism that pervades LDS culture. That culture emphasizes a Mormon tradition known as "eternal progression" — undoctrinal spiritual evolution in which even God is changing. It also emphasizes the notion that the latest words of governing church leaders trump the Word of God found in the scriptures (including LDS scripture).

IOW, EVERYTHING in Mormonism -- from its theology to its social practices -- is up for potential change at the whim of the Mormon god. Bottom-line: There is no bottom-line in Mormonism! There is no bedrock doctrine that cannot be replaced! a wishy-washy

194 posted on 04/21/2012 8:13:19 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: taildragger

When I heard the news of old Orrin going DOWN! I was happy :-)


195 posted on 04/21/2012 8:15:15 PM PDT by klimeckg ("The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.")
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To: taildragger

Maybe Orrin should go and ask Metallica for an endorsement seeing that he help them with the Napster deal!


196 posted on 04/21/2012 8:20:04 PM PDT by klimeckg ("The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.")
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To: Longbow1969; SoConPubbie; lonevoice; taildragger; Elsie; svcw; greyfoxx39
Aren’t there a bunch of FR posters running around spamming threads with anti-Mormon junk claiming that being a Mormon alone makes one a liberal. That Mormons are “progressive” because of their faith?

Time to review just a few "hints & clues" -- coupled with what I said in my last post...

How has Romney's Mormonism effected his governing in Bay State & His campaign statements?

GOV. Romney Mormon 'scripture' & History Sources Quotes
ObamaCare based upon RomneyCare [SoConPubbie has posted some threads the week of April 16, 2012 along these lines]. In addition, what about Romney's $50 taxpayer-subsidized abortions -- and some $0 abortions -- he permanently imposed a Planned Parenthood rep into supervision of RomneyCare? (Since he vetoed other portions of that legislation, the Planned Parenthood rep section was also something he could have vetoed). For all of the pro-abortion damage done by Romney in the Bay State, see: RomneyCare Now Funding FREE Abortions: A Disqualifier for Mitt Romney’s Candidacy [Enabler Mitt] Mitt's Mormonism embraced socialism/communism under the 'United Order' – sacred commands still on the Mormon “scriptures” – depicted to be “everlasting” commandments of the Mormon god The Mormon socialistic/communistic “everlasting” nature of the “United Order” depicted in Lds “scriptures” – Doctrine & Covenants 82:18-19 and 104:1, 48, 53. Even Lds author George Givens described Brigham Young’s communist-built community of Orderville, Utah as “pure communism”: "When Brigham Young established Orderville and similar United Orders, John Taylor was less than enthusiastic. He realized that enterprises such as Orderville were pure communism and not the law of consecration. He made this plain after he became President, when in 1882 he sent an epistle to all authorities of the Church in which he bluntly stated: 'We had no example of the 'United Order' in accordance with the word of God on the subject...Our relations with the world and our own imperfections prevent the establishment of this system [i.e. the system of consecration and stewardship spoken of at times as the 'United Order'] at the present time, as was stated by Joseph in an early day, it cannot yet be carried out.'" (George W. Givens, 500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, 2004, p. 169)"One of the most famous utopian books ever written was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy, published in 1889. Some scholars believe Looking Backward had considerable influence in the making of Lenin's Soviet Russia. If this is true, then [ensuing Lds "prophet"] Lorenzo Snow and the Latter-day Saints must receive some of the credit--or blame. Hearing of the success of the United Order in Brigham City, Edward Bellamy made a special trip to Utah in 1886 to study its operation. There he spent three days with Lorenzo Snow, Brigham City's founder and forty-year resident. Impressed with the thirty to forty industries run by its 2,000 inhabitants and the vitality at that time of one of the most successful United Orders, Bellamy returned home and wrote his influential book." (500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, p. 185). Way to go, 19th century Mormon leader-“prophets” of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor & Lorenzo Snow!!! They all unwittingly fueled Soviet Communism!
Mitt Romney is incredibly soft on illegal aliens Recent Lds history: 2 LDS branch presidents in Utah deported to Guatemala, El Salvador 10 reasons Christians should reject Romney “In 2006 Gov. Romney supported the president’s immigration policy as well as the McCain-Kennedy bill. He expressed support for an immigration program that places large numbers of illegal residents on the path toward citizenship. …” [without requiring they return home and wait their turn, allowing them to cut in line before law-abiding immigrants] Never mind that Romney hired (then fired) illegal aliens to landscape his yard. If Romney supports unlimited amnesty without any rule of law, how will he stand on national security?
Gov. Romney pro-civil unions for same-sex couples 2002-2005 (before he turned against it) and he is still in favor of taxpayer-funded domestic partnership benefits for sexual minorities. He says he supports 'Partnership agreements'. Also, Gov. Romney sucked up to the Bay State Gay Log Cabin...saying he would give the GLBT youth funding a greater spotlight at the fed level to emulate…he was endorsed twice by the Log Cabin Club of MA; he said in 1994 and reiterated in 2007 that he was in favor of forcing businesses to hire alternative sexual minorities (in ’94 he wanted feds to do it; now he wants the states to do it...his third position on that issue). Recent Lds history: Homosexual rights: Mormon church supports Salt Lake City's protections for gay rights and Mormons Back Salt Lake City Gay Rights Laws 10 reasons Christians should reject Romney and “Mitt Romney’s deception, His Stealth Promotion of ”Gay Rights” and “Gay Marriage” in Massachusetts,” book by Amy Contrada Per Amy Contrada’s book, “Mitt Romney’s deception, His Stealth Promotion of ”Gay Rights” and “Gay Marriage” in Massachusetts,” Gov. Romney, from 2003-2006: worked closely with homosexual activists and pro-gay rights advisers; implemented “gay marriage” through his executive departments without legislative authorization, violating the Massachusetts Constitution; pushed a constitutional amendment strategy doomed to failure, and ignored the call to remove the activist judges who ruled for “gay marriage”; funded and promoted GLBT indoctrination in the public schools through his “Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth,” and his Department of Education “Safe Schools” programs; undermined religious freedom, failing to defend Catholic Charities in the “homosexual adoptions” fiasco; continued or implemented radical homosexual and transgender programs in his executive departments.
Most years of Romney's “record” which he has talked about abortion, 1994, 2002, 2003, 2004 -- he has used his candidate and gubernatorial “bully pulpit” to encourage female citizens, readers & listeners to be “pro-choice” about the baby inside of them. (For those who try to claim he’s "changed," he’s equivocated in 2007 numerous times about what his pre-2007 stance was…saying in January of '07 he’s “always been for life” and saying in August '07 that he never called himself “pro-choice,” never allowed himself to feel or call himself pro-choice, and that he was “never pro-choice.” By December of 2007, he was telling Katie Couric in an interview that it was “OK” for parents to “donate” their otherwise adoptable embryos to “research”...my, “how pro-life” of him...Should all parents consider such “donations” – regardless of the age of their offspring? Why not, Mitt? And click on the first link in the "sources" column to the right to see the true abortion "legacy" of Romney, especially the year 2006 For the official Mormon church position on abortion, see
http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_abor.htm. Apparently, it's "OK" for an abortion if... (a) Incest needs to be covered up; (b) The baby is disabled and needs to be destroyed accordingly; (c) Mom's "health" (whatever that means...distinct from saying "life" of the mother); (d) If the abortionist says it's "OK"; (e) If the Mormon god says it's "OK" in prayer...E alone above could "justify" abortion to individual Mormons as long it overrides the person's conscience!
RomneyCare Now Funding FREE Abortions: A Disqualifier for Mitt Romney’s Candidacy [Enabler Mitt]; See also: GOP frontrunner Romney shirks pro-life pledge: Bachmann, Santorum criticize; Ann Romney Reveals Mitt's Softer Side (see quote next column); Candidates Reveal Their Biggest Mistakes (see quote next column) November, 2011, Parade Magazine interview: In the past you’ve said he’s changed positions only once, on abortion. Was that your doing? No, no, I never talked to Mitt about that. Our personal opinions have never changed; we’ve always been pro-life ( December 4, 2007: Romney: ...surplus embryos...Those embryos, I hope, could be available for adoption for people who would like to adopt embryos. But if a parent decides they would want to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable. It should not be made against the law." Any "inquiring minds" want to try wrapping their minds around how a politician in one sentence mentions "adopting" embryos out (yes, a great thing to mention!) -- but then in the very NEXT breath says if a "PARENT" wants to be "pro-choice" (Mitt used the word "decides" which is what "pro-choicers" say they want) "to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable." Say what???? How about 8-month gestationally-aged infants in the womb, Mitt? Or already-born infants, too, Mitt? If a "parent decides they would want to donate one of those...for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable..." No??? What's the 'pro-life' difference, Mitt? Here you call an embryo's mom&dad "parents" -- but "parents" w/ "research" give-away rights? How bizarre we have such schizophrenic "candidate!"
What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984) "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country!

197 posted on 04/21/2012 8:33:31 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: conservativebuckeye

He can’t. Not legal to be that type of weasel in Indiana.


198 posted on 04/21/2012 8:54:16 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (God punishes Conservatives by making them argue with fools.)
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To: ASOC

It ain’t over til it’s over, bump.


199 posted on 04/21/2012 8:54:41 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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O Hatch can go right one writing songs.
place marker


200 posted on 04/21/2012 8:56:12 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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