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Obama Lawyer Laughed at In Supreme Court
Fox News ^ | MARCH 26, 2012 | Video

Posted on 03/27/2012 4:39:56 AM PDT by Makana

On the first day of health care reform arguments before the Supreme Court, two justices needled a top Obama lawyer for simultaneously calling the fine that will be paid under the law for not purchasing insurance a “penalty” and a “tax.”

The confusion arises because of the administration’s argument that the power to enforce the individual mandate is rooted in Congress’ taxing power — but that the mechanism itself is designed to be a penalty, not a revenue-generating policy.

The narrow but important distinction created a communication challenge for the lawyer representing the Obama administration.

U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli used the phrase “tax penalty” multiple times to describe the individual mandate’s backstop. He portrayed the fee as a penalty by design, but one that functions as a tax because it’s collected through the tax code.

(Excerpt) Read more at nation.foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; obamacare; supremecourt; zerocare
Obama's lawyers are trying to split the hair by using the term "tax penalty". As the Big Liebowski was fond of saying "This will not stand".
1 posted on 03/27/2012 4:40:01 AM PDT by Makana
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To: Makana
Lawyer Laughed at...

Message to four of the Supremes: You'll be similarly laughed at for contorted positions if you vote with this lawyer and vote this monster constitutional.

2 posted on 03/27/2012 4:47:51 AM PDT by C210N (Mitt "Severe Etch-a-Sketch" Romney is the front-runner? Seriously??)
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To: Makana
...two justices needled a top Obama lawyer for simultaneously calling the fine that will be paid under the law for not purchasing insurance a “penalty” and a “tax.”

“Why do you keep saying tax?” Breyer interjected, to more laughs.

Being laughed at once while arguing before SCOTUS is bad enough.
Being laughed at TWICE is grounds for .. A Face Palm!

(when even the liberal justices laugh at you, you know you're done for)

3 posted on 03/27/2012 4:54:56 AM PDT by Condor51 (Yo Hoffa, so you want to 'take out conservatives'. Well okay Jr - I'm your Huckleberry)
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To: Makana
Here is a list of liberal accomplishments...

1: A group of legislators pass a bill without knowing what is in it! LOL!

2: A group of legislators pass a bill while still writing it! ROTFLMAO!

3: A group of legislators pass a bill which is purely antithetical to the U.S. constitution! Eternal Hilarity!!

Note: Bill Clinton argues it all depends on what the meaning of is, is. Absurdity reigns!

Please feel free to add to the list of liberal lunacy...

4 posted on 03/27/2012 4:57:18 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Freedom is not free)
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To: Makana
Don't make too much of it. Sometimes they say things on one side and then turn around and go the other way.

But it is interesting that Breyer sniped at him.

The whole thing is typical Leftist deceit: use twisted word definitions to try to get their tortured reasoning blessed.

Kinda like denying that an 8 week old human being isn't.

5 posted on 03/27/2012 4:57:34 AM PDT by Regulator
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To: Makana

[...insert low whistle here...]


6 posted on 03/27/2012 4:58:54 AM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: Makana
Here's a whole bunch of scenarios. I'm not working and living on my savings. How do I buy health insurance? Will they confiscate my bank account...which is where they are leading.

I'm 30 years old, living on a meager salary with nothing left over. My employer does not provide health insurance. How do I pay for health insurance.

I'm 40, living with my parents. I work part time landscaping. ow do I buy health insurance?

I lost my job last week and my health benefits. How do I pay for health insurance?

In my opinion, it's unenforceable except for the usual hard working folks. There's no way to make it equal for all.

It's nothing more than creating a pot to dip into which can be used for anything...just like they use SS funds.

7 posted on 03/27/2012 5:04:18 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Makana

Who was laughing...... the justices?


8 posted on 03/27/2012 5:07:16 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ..... Crucifixion is coming)
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To: Sacajaweau
In the scenarios where you're working, your small business employer will have to provide the insurance, or be fined. That's what is/will cause a majority of these guys to just close shop.

That will then take you to the unemployed scenario, where those who are still managing to work will be paying for your "free" ObieScare "insurance".

9 posted on 03/27/2012 5:12:54 AM PDT by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: Sacajaweau

Those are absolutely silly questions. [/sarc]
Of course, if you can’t afford it, you’ll be subsidized,
especially if you are in a traditionally democRat voting demographic.


10 posted on 03/27/2012 5:14:47 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Makana

Obamacare the biggest scam since cap and trade.


11 posted on 03/27/2012 5:17:07 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Makana

Ask the former Soliciter General now wearing a black robe to explain the difference.

Also ask her why she has not recused herself.


12 posted on 03/27/2012 5:18:36 AM PDT by CPOSharky (The only thing straight, white, Christian males get is the blame for everything.)
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To: Makana

The Fox News piece misses an important point:

On Day #1 the Justices considered only whether they are prohibited at this time from considering the constitutionality of the case due to the Anti-Injunction Act of such and such year. This argument was not presented by either side, but by a friend of the court.

The administration does not claim the penalty is a tax with regard to that act. Nevertheless, the administration will argue on Day #2 (today) that it amounts to a tax, or can be construed to be a tax, in terms of how Congress finds the power in the Constitution.

(I believe the administration will make two arguments to this effect.)

It is quite obvious that the Court chose to consider the argument of this particular friend of the court (and I believe there were numerous) in order to force the administration to try to thread the needle.

I am pretty sure that today the Justices will try to get the administration to explain how, if this penalty is a tax, there is any limitation on the power of Congress, thus, whether the Congress now has plenary power unrestrained by the Constitution.


13 posted on 03/27/2012 5:27:16 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: Makana
Obama's take on the "Uncertainty Principle"

If your looking for a tax, why then its a tax.

If your looking for a mandate, why then its a mandate.

It can be either depending on the day of the week and the jurisdiction of the court.

14 posted on 03/27/2012 5:28:03 AM PDT by Pietro
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To: Jane Long
The fine will be anything they want?? And will be changed every year.

Medicare OPart B was $3 a month when it started....an hours pay back then. Now its $100 a month. Looking at comparables, how many folks do you know that make $100 an hour.

I hired 2 (30 year old like Ms. Fluke)) college kids for the summer. I have to pay their insurance fore 3 months? That's insane.

15 posted on 03/27/2012 5:34:02 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

actually, those situations are perfectly fine with the libs.

YOU aren’t expected to pay for healthcare if you’re in the lower 50% of tax filers. you read that right. why? because the lower 50% of tax filers pay less then 3% of all taxes... call it 0%.

there isn’t enough money to pay for 0failurecare via taxation... without radically increasing taxes on the upper 50%.

it cost about $2.5 trillion to provide healthcare in the US during 2009.

the US collects about $2 trillion in tax revenue annually

logically, tax revenue would have to DOUBLE in order to cover the cost, and that’s before you tell everyone it’s free.

libs know that won’t happen, but if it did they would be thrilled with the radical increase of redistribution. they will gladly accept an additional $2 trillion yearly debt increase above our current debt loads... which will crater the country faster

http://www.chcf.org/publications/2011/05/health-care-costs-101


16 posted on 03/27/2012 5:48:33 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: Makana

Majority of SC are decided before oral arguments. Justices make decisions based on the briefs presented. These oral arguments are just fishing expeditions by the Judges. Judges will latch on to the arguments and use the answers to the questionsIn order to solidify their opinion. This is why you see Judges playing Devil’s Advocate with their prosecutor/defense presenter of choice hoping they will make a satisfactory argument.

A circus of monumental proportions, which is why I respect the integrity of at least 4 Justices who actually do push for opinions based on Constitutional fact. In fact Thomas gets bonus points for not putting up with asking questions that return as disingenuous answers.


17 posted on 03/27/2012 5:58:57 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians)
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To: Redmen4ever

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/03/27/us/27scotus-transcript.html


18 posted on 03/27/2012 6:00:31 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Jane Long
your small business employer will have to provide the insurance, or be fined. That's what is/will cause a majority of these guys to just close shop.

My next door neighbor is an insurance provider for small, local businesses. He calls himself "Their HR Department".

We were talking awhile ago. I made a crack about Obamacare. He stopped dead, turned, and said "You have no idea how bad this is going to be."

He said that most of his clients - think small businesses, like an engineering shop primarily run around 1 or 2 PE's, or an animal clinic with 1 or 2 Vets - are closing up, or planning to. The "primaries" in the shop just don't want the hassle. They're retiring, or will go it on their own. All of the "peripheral" staff - receptionists, accountants, whatever - will just get laid off.

I asked him what he's going to do if all of his clientele goes out of business. He wasn't sure. Unsurprisingly, he was more worried about the three other people on his payroll.

So, what you suggested is already happening, or is in the works.

19 posted on 03/27/2012 6:03:09 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Sacajaweau

The left truly believe that by changing the name of something you change what it is. Therefore, a liberal becomes a progressive, an illegal alien becomes an undocumented worker, a homosexual becomes a gay. They’ve been using this tactic for many years but now it looks like they’ve been caught. By trying to change the nature of this monstrous clause in the bill and call it something it isn’t, they thought no one would notice.


20 posted on 03/27/2012 6:03:18 AM PDT by NotTallTex
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To: Makana
I just posted the transcript. Based on what I've read, they will rule against Obamacare. All the exceptions already exist in one form or another. It's only the "penalty TAX" that is new.

I thought pg 26, 28 contained some important points.

21 posted on 03/27/2012 6:03:27 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Makana

I got a speeding tax last month. Can I take it off my Tax return?


22 posted on 03/27/2012 6:07:09 AM PDT by Safetgiver (I'd rather die under a free American sky than live under a Socialist regime.)
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To: Jane Long
Depends on the fine.

Here's tthe problem: The employer decides to pay the penalty...cheaper than the insurance. So where is the insurance for these folks coming from and what kind of coverage are they getting...OR, do they also pay a penalty tax? Is that double dipping??

23 posted on 03/27/2012 6:07:38 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Makana

Being laughed at by Supreme Court Justices. I would take that as a really bad sign.


24 posted on 03/27/2012 6:16:59 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Makana

25 posted on 03/27/2012 6:18:33 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Justice and judgment are the foundation of His throne.")
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To: Pietro
Obama's take on the "Uncertainty Principle"

The tax was eaten by Shrodinger's cat

26 posted on 03/27/2012 6:19:42 AM PDT by spokeshave (Dole/McCain/Romney losers all....NEWT is da Man)
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To: sten
there isn’t enough money to pay for 0failurecare via taxation... without radically increasing taxes on the upper 50%.

Actually, it's not possible to even pay for the current government spending by taxation. I believe that the US government is now spending roughly the same amount as the GNP. If that's the case, then the only way the government can cover its spending would be to confiscate 100% of all the goods and services produced in the USA, leaving nothing for the people who actually did the work. Forget taking a a percentage, the government needs it all.

Mark

27 posted on 03/27/2012 6:33:06 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Makana

This thread is a duplicate:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2864050/posts


28 posted on 03/27/2012 6:37:10 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Makana

wow, they’re even more P.O.’ed at Barry over his dressing down at the SOTU speech than I thought they were.


29 posted on 03/27/2012 6:45:00 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Makana

The 2,000+ pages of Obamacare were crafted in secret and in haste so it could be shoved through Congress. I doubt anyone who voted for it ever read the whole thing let alone understood the whole concept. The law is byzantine and so complex few could ever totally understand it. Each of those 2,000 pages of the law will beget perhaps 10 pages of implementing regulations making the law almost incomprehensible to anyone.


30 posted on 03/27/2012 7:12:15 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other people's money" M. Thatcher)
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To: wbill
Funny you should mention your insurance neighbor. We have an acquaintance who does the same thing...provides/sells group health coverage to small businesses. This clown actually voted for 0, if you can believe that. When we saw him in 2010, he was still saying 0Care would not effect his business.

Fast forward to now...he won't mention 0, 0Care and has even cut back his own business...he's let sales reps go.

31 posted on 03/27/2012 7:13:06 AM PDT by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: MarkL

actually, the nation ‘brings in’ about $12 trillion per year (GDP).

the federal government spends about $4 trillion per year.

annual taxation brings in about $2 trillion.

spending is just *way* out of control. we’re spending 100% more then ‘we’ (the govt) brings in.


32 posted on 03/27/2012 10:06:53 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Makana.
...two justices needled a top Obama lawyer for simultaneously calling the fine that will be paid under the law for not purchasing insurance a "penalty" and a "tax."

33 posted on 03/27/2012 2:31:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him)
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