The Myth of "Fetal Pain"

LJWorld.com ^ | March 10, 2012 at 3:06 p.m. | Cait48

[Rabin]

Re Ariaona Republic: Debate surrounding this year's battle over abortion-restriction legislation at the Arizona Legislature -- and in at least two other states -- has come down to a question of pain… "The evaluation of pain in the human fetus and neonate is difficult because pain is generally defined as a subjective phenomenon"...Can a fetus feel pain, and at what gestational age does that ability develop?

Re Rab: All is well, pain is the sticking point. Lets jes throw the baby into an Osterizer head first (denigrating pain to an infinitesimal p0int in time), in the narrow circumstance, job well done, pay the butcher, nothing here folks jes move along.. Wow, what a dil. No more messing with zygotes, fetuses, partials, premes... Wow indeed, if it works for unwanted children perhaps it would be ok for the mother in-law, using a properly appointed yard mulcher. Later on jus pick your no painer. Pick a jew, or all jews. Pick an ….

MmmMm? Or maybe not.

Rab

[pops88]

“unscientifically founded”

No, as a 14+ years NICU RN it has been scientifically founded that they do feel pain. Too many people know the truth on this one.

[U-238]

I agree with you.

[eclecticEel]

So ... if I murder someone, but do it in such a way that it is ensured that they feel no pain, I get off. Don’t I?

What, it doesn’t work that way?

[hosepipe]

Does the “baby human” feel pain before or after they are murdered?..
After they are dead they may NOT feel pain.. This could be true..

[U-238]

In 36 states there are fetal homicide laws.

[NoLibZone]

However, there may be an emerging consensus among developmental neurobiologists that the establishment of thalamocortical connections" (at about 26 weeks) is a critical event with regard to fetal perception of pain.^[27] Nevertheless, because pain can involve sensory, emotional and cognitive factors, it is "impossible to know" when painful experiences may become possible, even if it is known when thalamocortical connections are established.^[27]

[GraceG]

By their logic it is okay to kill an adult if you anesthetize them first, then you can put the bullet in their head because you know, “they don’t feel pain...”

What about people with these disorders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain_with_anhidrosis

If someone murders someone with these conditions will they get off the hook? HELL NO!

So why is that even a standard for judging the ethics of abortions.

Occams Razor here, on line one, any takers?

[NoLibZone]

That runs contrary to the liberal position that a fetus is a life.

How can any states have laws that consider killing a pregnant women as 2 murders?

[hope]

Thank you, Yaweh, the keeper of all things!

[NoLibZone]

Is the murder of a human that cannot feel pain and cannot live with out assistance, considered murder by the left ?

[U-238]

That runs contrary to the liberal position that a fetus is a life.

It does.

[Rabin]

Thanks GG.

R could but add.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fetal+pain&FORM=BIFD

[Blacksheep]

How about the pain the mother will feel the rest of her life? Or near mother?

[hope]

How about that God says He has every hair on your head accounted for...that means He knows everything!

[MPJackal]

Nope, that would be assisted suicide. The only lives the left fights for are those on Death Row.

[aruanan]

A number of state legislatures are passing legislation outlawing abortion after the twentieth week on the basis of "fetal pain". This is just one of many, unscientifically founded assertions regarding abortion that are being codified into our laws in different states. Part of the misunderstanding of "fetal pain" has to do with the idea that a developing fetus feels pain the way an adult feels pain. This is an impossibility.

Uh huh.

"A number of state legislatures are passing legislation outlawing beating children after birth on the basis of "childhood pain". This is just one of many, unscientifically founded assertions regarding child beating that are being codified into our laws in different states. Part of the misunderstanding of "childhood pain" has to do with the idea that a developing child feels pain the way an adult feels pain. This is an impossibility."

In the above context, they say the case for abortions after the twentieth week depends upon the experience of pain. Are they saying that denying life is not to be permitted if the experience is painful? For whom? Surely after the fetus is dead it will no longer feel or remember feeling pain. This reminds me of the question of whether one would rather be given a drug before an operation that would prevent pain or be given one later that would erase from the memory the pain experienced during the operation. Such questioning is secondary to the fact of the operation. What will be its result? In the case of abortion the result will be the death of the fetus whether it feels any pain or not. The experience of pain, then, is not bad in itself if its cause brings about a better state of being or prevents a worse one. To grant or deny a fetus (the term here used generically) a future life outside the womb as a sentient human being by its present ability to experience pain seems more than bizarre--"It’s okay, you know, it didn’t feel a thing because it wasn’t sentient." Yeah, which is better, to exist having felt no pain of abortion or to not exist having felt no pain of abortion? To be or not to be, that is the question, isn’t it?

[jonrick46]

So, anesthetize the unborn child right up to the time of birth and it’s alright. The child would not know it happened and if anyone is unaware of their own murder, then it shouldn’t be considered murder. Not!

[TigersEye]

Is pain the moral metric now? Then if you painlessly kill an adult that won’t be murder anymore!?! It’s easy to do.

[srmorton]

Obviously not. The proof is the court-ordered “murder” of Terry Shiavo. Of course, we do not really know if she experienced pain during the three weeks that it took this murder to be complete since she could not speak about it.