Posted on 03/17/2012 9:02:15 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
They’re already changing zoning laws to allow chickens, goats and even small pigs in a lot of places. And a lot of breweries in the UK still use horse-drawn drays for local deliveries (within a few miles) because it’s actually cheaper than fuel. Watch for more horse-drawn vehicles in the countryside if fuel prices go any higher.
It's not important what the number on the battery says. The test is simple, it's called "distance traveled." If you can come up with a battery that can move the car for 300-400 miles at 50-60 mph then this battery will be a reasonable option.
But the charging time of that battery is still a factor. We know that it doesn't take much time to fill the tank in a car. Perhaps 5 minutes if the tank is large. Fast charging of a battery is theoretically possible today, with damage to the battery; but will that new battery be capable of fast charging? Currents there will be huge.
The problem here is that when you fill the tank you are pouring a chemical that is ready to burn. Batteries take something else and make that chemical while you are waiting. That chemical reaction is much slower, and it is not entirely repeatable; as result, a battery has a limited number of cycles. A gas tank has no such limit.
The electric motor is great, by the way. I don't think many people complain about that part. The problem is only with the battery - it is large, heavy, expensive, fragile, takes forever to charge, and it wears out. If someone finds a way to store (or to produce) electric energy with a battery that costs about the same as an empty gas tank then we will see mass migration to EVs. Until then - sorry, the Leaf is not a good car for a mobile person. It is an OK car for a cube farm guy who only goes to work and from work, 10 miles per day. (But if someone drives that little then it makes no sense to spend $38K on a car.)
So, batteries don’t have to achieve the same energy density to get the same number of miles on a charge as a ICE would on a tank.
Lots of people live in climate with winter. This "lost energy" is not exactly lost to them. Sometimes it's barely enough to heat the cabin, even when you insulate the radiator. An electric car would go maybe 5 miles in winter, even if that much. You can't use a car without heated windows - you need to see where you are going.
when that happens, and it will, the per mile cost of fuel 3 cents vs. 12 cents and the greatly reduced maintenance cost will make the electric car competitive
It all depends on cost of energy sources. Electric power is largely produced with materials of Earth's crust. All other methods (wind, solar, etc.) are very expensive and very inefficient. If EVs are adopted en masse then the cost of electric energy can easily go up - not just because utilities are inherently evil, but simply because there won't be enough electrons to run around. How many power plants, nuclear or otherwise, have been recently constructed? Efficient methods of mining coal are being shunned for aesthetical reasons; mining coal underground is an extremely dangerous manual labor. Domestic oil is neither mined nor purchased from Canada. You can't transport electricity across the ocean; so where will those joules be coming from?
“It’s not important what the number on the battery says. The test is simple, it’s called “distance traveled.” If you can come up with a battery that can move the car for 300-400 miles at 50-60 mph then this battery will be a reasonable option.”
The Tesla S model can travel at 55 mph for 300 miles, so those batteries do exist. However, the current energy density levels means you need a lot of them to go 300 miles. If the new Envia batteries hold up after extensive testing, then the size and cost of a battery needed to go 300 miles should drop by 50%. The real limitation now is cost.
“But the charging time of that battery is still a factor. We know that it doesn’t take much time to fill the tank in a car. Perhaps 5 minutes if the tank is large. Fast charging of a battery is theoretically possible today, with damage to the battery; but will that new battery be capable of fast charging? Currents there will be huge.”
On most days, people would trickle charge overnight. You will just plug in when you get home like you would do with the cell phone. There is massive amounts of excess capacity for during the off peak hours, and it would take massive adoption of EV’s to make a dent in that excess capacity. With regard to fast charging, some chemistry is more forgiving than others, but both Nissan and Tesla have done extensive testing and warranty their batteries for 10 years and 8 years respectively.
To say that a battery would have to cost the same as an empty gas tank to be competitive is absurd. This ignores the cost savings per mile of the fuel, the elimination of an expensive, maintenance intensive engine and transmission. To be competitive the EV needs to come close to the ICE on total life cycle costs. Obviously, the more wealthy, can afford to pay a higher up front cost, but most people would pay some premium up front, if their total ownership cost would be the same or less over time. If an empty gas tank costs 300 dollars for a typical sedan, you are suggesting that a 300 mile battery that cost 400 dollars would not be competitive.
Your assertion that an electric car can only drive 5 miles in the cold is false. Yes, the cold does reduce range, but Leaf’s have operated in the northern U.S. this winter getting a lot more than 5 miles. Even if range dropped by 1/3 in the winter, a 300 mile Tesla would still have a lot of range. And don’t forget, that these cars can be programmed to hear / cool the battery and passenger car, using the plugged in power source before the owner gets in the car, so that the car’s battery is not wasted for that purpose.
Yes, we will need to burn coal, use nuclear, import Canadian oil etc. But even if we imported the oil, and used it only to generate electricity, it would still be more efficient than having an often poorly maintained gas power plant in each car on the road.
Driving an EV will always be different, plugging in at night vs. pulling into the WAWA, but when they become competitive in cost and convenience, you will start seeing a lot on the road. The ability to fill up a tank for 5-6 bucks will sway a lot of folks.
What a waste.
These cars are actually coal powered. We’re on the road to nowhere!
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Why isn’t this said every time this subject comes up? Obama shutting down coal is shutting down the electric car industry.
On a cold winter day that will get you about 5 minutes until you need to put the heater on. Same for the A/C on a hot summer day.
What, it takes 20-30 minutes to re-charge at a “filling station”?
Let me see, let’s assume there are 5 cars in line (I’m last), it takes (using round numbers) 20 minutes/car so that’s 5 x 20 = 100 minutes or 1 hour and 20 minutes before my car gets re-charged. WOW! I would have to leave home two days before I need to get somewhere just so I could get my car batteries re-charge. Now that is some REAL change (once again, the American public has been duped).
Can you imagine the lines in California as people wait to get the electric cars re-charged? INSANE!!!!!!!
What, it takes 20-30 minutes to re-charge at a “filling station”?
Let me see, let’s assume there are 5 cars in line (I’m last), it takes (using round numbers) 20 minutes/car so that’s 5 x 20 = 100 minutes or 1 hour and 20 minutes before my car gets re-charged. WOW! I would have to leave home two days before I need to get somewhere just so I could get my car batteries re-charge. Now that is some REAL change (once again, the American public has been duped).
Can you imagine the lines in California as people wait to get the electric cars re-charged? INSANE!!!!!!!
Let me see, let's assume there are 5 cars in line (I'm last), it takes (using round numbers) 20 minutes/car so that's 5 x 20 = 100 minutes or 1 hour and 20 minutes before my car gets re-charged. WOW! I would have to leave home two days before I need to get somewhere just so I could get my car batteries re-charge. Now that is some REAL change (once again, the American public has been duped).
Can you imagine the lines in California as people wait to get the electric cars re-charged? INSANE!!!!!!!
When I see the smug guy in the volt (Dolt) ad I just want to hit in the face with a pie. What is with these socialist idiots who are smug about stealing from others (i.e., tax “rebate”), not paying gas taxes and using roads, having all sorts of “subsidies” for their loser cars?
Just like rechargeable batteries for a flashlight.
True, but bringing the car from 0 up to 70 or from 100 down to 70 would take a tremendous amount of energy. If you program the car to start the heater or A/C while it is still plugged in, all of that energy saved is available for use. Of course, the range will still be reduced, but not as much.
Only a liberal would think this is “progress.”
At that point, you’d probably do better with a horse and buggy.
“Calling all copper thieves, calling all copper thieves!”
“You’re a joke CA, a sad, sick joke. “
I believe this runs from the cal-Ore border to around Eugene Ore. I think you mean “ You’re a joke ORE, a sad, sick joke. “
Great point!
Heating a gas car is essentially free. Cooling a small car takes about 4 hp off you engine’s rating.
Yeah, they were a pain in the butt when they didn’t get a full charge.
That is true but you are are trying to define/limit the choices, by saying it electric versus gasoline.
But the choices include: electric, plug-in hybrid, hybrid, gasoline, diesel, natural gas, gasoline-natural gas hybrid.
If you feel limited with your 5 hour range, switch to the gasoline-nat gas hybrid for a 9 hour range, if you can hold your water.
Most families own multiple cars and if they buy an electric it is only for local duty and have no intent of taking it on the road.
No doubt about it and that is why they buy the BS of global warming.
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