Posted on 02/11/2012 2:47:00 PM PST by tcg
Be alot easeir and you would look less foolish if you would just admit it.
When you brought religion into your post you mooted your earlier argument on issues. Talk one or the other but not both. I prefer Newt at this point too but Rick is perfectly acceptable against Obama though Rick does need some polishing.
Which of your arguments; the one about policy or the one about religion was pointless?
No one pretends that Catholics and Baptists share 100% in one another's theological beliefs. Nor need we so share for the purposes at hand. We Catholics are not going to win without you Baptists and many other members of other reformed churches. You Baptists are not going to win without us either. Why are we fighting here? Let us join together in obedience to Jesus Christ whatever our theological differences.
As to you personally, I cannot very well know since I do not know you. I am perfectly willing to assume that your beliefs on the matters at hand reflect those of Bible Christianity, the Southern Baptist Convention and similar entities.
My problems with you and with some others who post as you do are several.
1. I make it a point NOT to criticize the sincerely held and reasonable religious beliefs of others here. I am thoroughly convinced that the RCC is, among other good things, infallible in its teaching magisterium and no one whomsoever I may encounter on the internet is going to change my mind on that. I do not want or need to be impertinently preached at by those of other faiths, no matter their sincerity.
2. You came to this thread which has nothing whatever to do with the reformation, spoiling for a fight with Catholics and just committed to preaching at us. I am a recovering attorney who represented hundreds of wonderful people of various reformed persuasions who invaded and shut down abortion mills and desterilized their suction machines and instruments, along with my fellow Catholics. I asked each and every client at length about his/her religious beliefs so that I could accurately represent him/her to the court according to the client's beliefs and motivations and never my own. I absolutely refrained from arguing religion with any of them. I was too busy and respectful being awestricken by the moral qualities and moral witness of each and all. I never asked any for a fee and represented 1100 of them with few being convicted.
3. Those two criticisms will suffice since I have absolutely no desire to argue religion with you. There are plenty of Catholics here who will give you a fight. I wish they would not. Many are far better equipped than I but our purpose here, yours and ours, as Christians, should be solidarity in defeating the servants of our common enemy, saving the innocent lives that God has created, preserving moral values in our society and a whole lot of other actions that show the fruit of our respective faiths in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, who died on the cross for my sins, your sins, and every other human being's sins.
May God bless you and yours.
2. Mr. Tuomey, when he was opposing Senator Arlen Specter in a GOP primary, had a personal track record as a pro-abort from his days as a member of Congress from some fashionable snobby mainline GOP white wine/Volvo/poloplaying district. Upon declaring for the Senate primary as an ex-Congressman, the Harvahd educated Mr. Tuomey announced also that he had suddenly discovered himself to be pro-life after all (killing innocent babies not being very popular in Western PA and many other parts of the state that are not silk stocking). Senator Specter was an honest pro-abort who was nonetheless responsible for demolishing the lies of Anita Hill and demolishing Anita Hill herself in the Clarence Thomas hearings. Specter, if re-nominated and re-elected was to be the Chairman of Senate Judiciary and he promised Santorum that he would harm no pro-life nominee otherwise qualified for SCOTUS and inferior courts. Specter kept his word. John Roberts is SCOTUS CJ and Sam Alito Scotus AJ.
3. Your complaints amount to suggesting he should have abandoned his connections and talents and gone to work as a coal miner after losing his senate seat in an historically bad year to an historically dishonest Robert Casey, Jr.
4. I don't know who you would favor over Santorum for the GOP nod but I would observe: Ron Paul's foreign policy would create Vichy America in service to Muhammed's enthusiasts and Paulie's exotic desire to actually enforce the 10th Amendment after it has been sensibly ignored for nearly two centuries is a plan for French Revolution, Part Deux; Mutt Romney is the worst serial liar to ever seek the job of POTUS and any conservative familiar with the money-obsessed Mittwit's term as governor of Taxachusetts in service to his fellow trust fund babies would not give Mutt a moment's positive attention; Newt Gingrich would make a fine POTUS but he seems badly wounded by the marital matters and has been bleeding copiously since South Carolina.
5. Anybody but Romney means ANYBODY but Romney and we may thank God that Ron Paul is not viable enough to worry about. Once Rick or Newt is nominated, and only then, we can move on to Anybody but Obozo.
I found it disturbing that Protestants were essentially making no distinction when embracing Santorum. That recent episode here in Texas where, apparently, a bunch of pastors stood around Santorum, laid hands on him and prayed over him.
Imagine me walking into a Catholic Church and the Priest and the people therein ask me to take communion when I reject just about everything they stand for.
It’s insanity.
That’s generally what I had in mind in my response. It was the other fellows here who got so offended about it, calling me a bigot since they suddenly saw me talking about Catholic individuals as opposed to Catholicism. God forbid I’d have my own point of view that didn’t assume that all faiths are equal!
Come to think of it. It is precisely this type of mindset, this “all things are equal”, that is largely responsible for the slow death of Catholicism. As I said in that other post, the Catholic Church would be A LOT stronger if instead of worrying about getting along, they insisted on the superiority of their beliefs, enforced their own rules on their membership, and generally took into their hands the authority they claim they’ve always had.
Instead, we got people on here freaking out about a Baptist not sitting around saying nice things about them, while Homo-Commie Priests and Bishops are running things, and GOOD Bishops are generally maltreated and represent a vast minority, as the Pope looks on with his Holy impotence.
If someone wants to challenge me on it and take it so personal, I have no problem fighting back on it.
Very well said, BlackElk! Strife and division are tools of the enemy and will not serve us well in either a spiritual or temporal sense. Mea culpa for taking umbrage at anti-Catholic sentiment on another thread. What a waste of time when I could have been volunteering on behalf of a candidate committed to repealing Obamacare and defending our God-given rights, including the right to life! Mea maxima culpa. PS-thanks for what you did on behalf of prolifers :)
That be a good point if the Catholic Church didn’t have so many corrupt leftists in positions of power.
When the Pope starts excommunicating Lib politicians who claim to be Catholic, and starts throwing out Bishops or other people in power who have been sitting around doing nothing about the evil occurring right in front of them, THEN go ahead and use your feeble arguments on me.
Priests are human. Bishops too. Being a priest or a bishop no more gives you inerrancy than being a Baptist does.
One thing that always ticks me off is seeing people calling for excommunication of X Y Z. Excommunication is not a d*mned parking ticket - it is a deeply serious thing, not to be done except as a last resort.
When the Pope starts excommunicating Lib politicians who claim to be Catholic, and starts throwing out Bishops or other people in power who have been sitting around doing nothing about the evil occurring right in front of them, THEN go ahead and use your feeble arguments on me.
You keep confusing the Church which is the Body of Christ, with individuals with in the Body.
I agree with you I wish that the local ordinary (Bishops have the control over who receives communion with in their Diocese) would excommunicate Pewlousy, Biteme, Kerry, etc... But EnglishCon is correct excommunication is not something to be taken lightly. The hope is that the person will see the error of their ways and turn their life toward Christ. It has happened in the past, Joe DiMaggio is the first that comes to mind.
Also sadly short of excommunication there is no way to stop someone from calling themselves Catholic, just like if I wanted to I could start calling myself Baptist. Who is to say I am not?
But the issue is that your "governing body" has done nothing, and does not have the central authority to step up and fight this.
You guys Some Baptists churches) have women pastors and are performing homosexual weddings. Yes there was an item on 60 minutes about it.
So the question remains when is either the TBC and/or SBC going to step up and make a formal declaration as a whole?
You wrote:
“I have never once used the word “church” in reference to a building. I don’t think you’re disagreeing with what you think you’re disagreeing with.”
I am disagreeing with your misunderstanding.
“Preaching, which is what we are all commanded to do, and setting up a fancy building and requiring people to show up every sunday, going to a Priest to gain forgiveness, performing rituals over and over again as a condition of salvation, are not the same things.”
And, again, there is your misunderstanding. Christ said to offer the Eucharist in remembrance of Him. It’s not just “rituals over and over again”.
“The emphasis in scripture is one of true spirituality and holiness. That means, stuff you don’t see, not an emphasis on what you can see.”
It means an emphasis on grace - but we receive that grace from Christ through the sacraments and prayer.
“Your emphasis is on worldly buildings, visible rituals, and methods that one must follow to gain favor with God.”
No, it isn’t. My emphasis is on what Christ gave us. You deny what Christ has given us. I don’t.
“That is one of the reasons why you keep flipping out whenever I use the word “Church” to refer to two or three people gathered together, as opposed to the Pope’s residence in Rome.”
I have never flipped out. Why do you have to make things up? I have not said a thing about the Church being the pope’s apartment. I doubt that fact will stop you from making things up, however.
Put another way, you support the troops, but you are against the mission.
How nice, you dear boy.
This REAL Catholic is ending this dialogue with a REAL Southern Baptist, you have just shown your true self.
These threads always remind me of Marines and Army in the same bar ....
One heck of a battle royale, yet they are part of the same forces.
As to laying on of hands and praying for blessings for those of other faiths, I have no problem with that. When recuperating in a nursing home from surgery, I used to ask an Assembly of God minister whose fervor impressed me to pray for me. I would also pray for my room mate who was his parishioner. People of good will are likely to pray for one another's health and well-being regardless of theological differences. There is something in Scripture to the effect that people will know the Christians as the ones who love one another. Jesus wept in the Garden at Gethsemane over the fact that His flock would not be as one. As Christians, you and I are stuck with each other or ought to be.
As to "the slow death of the Catholic Church": things look different here on the inside. Be patient with us as we restore the Faith in the USA. Benedict XVI is a lot less impotent than you may imagine. Death, age, health and welcome retirements have given B-XVI the opportunity he has taken to purge the ranks of bishops in Texas and Illinois and Wisconsin and Michigan and a lot of other places. Upstate New York is next (Albany, Buffalo, Rochester all of them infested by aging miscreants). We have long suffered from many bishops (Bernardin, Mahoney, Gonzalez, Pilarczyk, Delaney and many, many others) appointed at the request of Vatican nuncio to the US Archbishop Jadot who was about as Catholic as Stalin. The Jadot generation are nearly gone. I very much trust NY Cardinal designate Timothy Dolan to wage war against Obozo when he returns from Rome this month with his red hat. He is also the only challenger ever elected president of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops over the then incumbent VP a radical of the old generation who is now finished in USCCB. I won't bother you with the details of B-XVI appointments and JP II's later appointments. Trust me that the Vatican is in the process of cleaning the stables of what we used to call AmChurch (leftists Demonrats at apparent prayer). You may well not become Catholic yourself but we are going to give you a lot better class of bishop to respect from the outside. I promise.
We will still have some Homo-Commie priests for a while but, having been smacked up side the head by the pedophile scandal, the Vatican has also tightened up considerably on the seminaries and there has been a welcome rise in vocations and quite orthodox vocations at that. The small diocese in rural Illinois where I live is blessed with an ultra-hard line bishop and dozens of seminarians and only one scandal (one too many but God isn't finished with us yet) involving a priest who was caught putting his hands all over a couple of high school coeds under his charge. He was defrocked and served several years in jail. There is no tolerance here.
I don't take or mean any of this personally. I celebrate the fact that you and I live in America where you are free to be the most Baptist fellow you know how to be and I the most Catholic fellow (by belief if not always by practice) that I know how to be. I look forward to being in solidarity with you on those many matters where we agree and to disagree respectfully when we do not.
God bless you and yours!
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