Posted on 02/06/2012 11:46:26 PM PST by JediJones
(JediJones: Here are details on their "secret" plan to win a brokered convention with "stealth" delegates. This perhaps explains why Ron Paul is focusing on caucus states. I don't know enough to say if this is a pipe dream or possible. But Newt and Rick people can try it too.)
We NEED Gingrich and Santorum to STAY in the race. Because they, along with Dr. Paul will keep Romney from a majority at the convention. Then...
At every state primary precinct, as the delegates are being selected to go to the State's Convention, Ron Paul supporters are getting those delegate slots. At the State Convention those Ron Paul delegates will be sent to the National Convention.
(This secret part has been edited out by ME at the request of the RP Campaign and other high level supporters. But what YOU need to know is get out and vote and then become a delegate)
(JediJones: I found the "secret" part reposted in another thread, here it is.)
AT THE National Convention, upon the first call of the votes, Romney will NOT get the majority, as a result of Paul Gingrich and Santorum ALL having delegates. BUT, and here is the clincher, AFTER the first call doesn't produce a majority winner, the delegates are then UNBOUND from having to vote for the respective candidate. Being that the majority of delegates are Ron Paul supporters, (whether or not they were originally bound to Santorum, Gingrich, or Romney), when the next call happens the Ron Paul people will give Ron the majority thus the Nomination.
So, there you have it. That MEANS that it is SUPER IMPORTANT, that no matter WHO WINS the primary vote, for Ron Paul supporters to become the local delegates!!
(JediJones: Below is more of the thread.)
(Excerpt) Read more at dailypaul.com ...
This is exactly how we win. Get on the delegate express. We just need enough RP supporters to get into the system. The RNC/DNC are weaker than you think. They are half empty skeleton organizations. We have more than enough RP supporters to do take Tampa.
Ron Paul Delegates Submitted by creampuffwar on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 21:34.
How do you become a delegate in your precinct??
Becoming a Delegate Submitted by LeC on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 22:38.
You have to go to the caucus. After the straw poll, many people will leave, but DON'T! The next step is delegate election. Each precinct (neighborhood) is allotted a certain number of delegate positions and alternate positions. You vote for the people in your neighborhood to fill each position. Bring your spouse/family members/friends (whoever lives in your precinct) and vote for each other. You can also nominate yourself. Alternates are very important, too, especially the first position, as if any one of the main delegates don't show up at the next level, you're automatically in! Please contact the RP headquarters in your state for some caucus training. They give a good one. :)
Here's how... Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 22:36.
Most of the time you can just hang around AFTER you vote. I am sure different areas have different protocols. Find out from your county office.
But know this, it ain't hard to do.
did just that tonight Submitted by mainah on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 21:05.
3 delgates alloted for my maine district. myself and my wife became delegates and the other is for romney. so technically ron just won my district with 66%
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!
BOOM!! Submitted by Libertarian American on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 21:10.
That's how we do this sh*t! YEAH! Way to go man!
Everybody else in a caucus state: do the same thing! You and your spouse/SO, your friends, whatever. SWAMP the whole damn process with RP supporters and they can rig all the votes they want and we'll still stick it to 'em! :-D
I absolutely love your premise, however, in 2008..... Submitted by SableArms on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:25.
We were having the same conversations and I expect the same thing to happen this go around (2012) as occurred in 2008. The GOP Apparatus (PTB) simply stole our (Ron Paul) delegates in states like Louisiana, Missouri, pretty much any state they felt like stealing delegates from and then accordingly handing them over to their nominee John McCain. Election corruption to its very core. My question is as follows: What is Ron Paul and his campaign going to do about this persistant ongoing problem this time (2012) around. I will not continue donating $$ if he and his campaign are not more aggressive about this intolerable issue. It had better come to a halt!
This is part of the reason Submitted by rp4pres on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:36.
they didn't want it being brought up again in details.
I'm all for delegates but we should be telling them how to become one not what our final plans are to win of which we're telling every person on this board.. including...
Whatever though.. some people just put their heads down and ram forward without thinking.
Look.. you guys talking about delegates isn't an issue Submitted by rp4pres on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:44.
We need them for exactly the reason you're talking about but don't give away the fine details.. You can promote that without doing so. We don't need a national conversation about how we have about half of everyones delegates.
That's all I'm saying. BTW, I've kept quiet for a month about it since I've learned.
True Submitted by Achilles on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 20:02.
It all depends on what happens at the state conventions. This happened in DE IIRC in 2008. Our local committee nominated a single RP supporter to go to the state convention which we thought was an accomplishment. But when the state convention took place, our candidate was apparently left out of the mix to go to the RNC.
It's a game that has to be played. But if you come to the casino, you can't get a seat at the table.
Become a delegate!
No Mistake...The GOP Already Knows...... Submitted by ZMAN70 on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:09.
So, what's the mistake if the GOP knows? Do you actually think that the GOP has no clue what we're doing?? lol
The GOP is very aware of it Maine...that's for sure. And they're trying to combat it by getting more delegates by having more caucuses.
No, I know they do. Submitted by rp4pres on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:11.
The average neocon voter doesn't though and I was told to keep it quiet and not talk about it.. not specifics.
Become a delegate fine.. It's needed. Submitted by rp4pres on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:19.
but go ahead, let's make all of our plans water cooler discussion. Maybe we could post a list of all of the supporters that are hidden too.
40% of delegates for RP, in my precinct Submitted by 2_planker on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 18:01.
My wife and I became delegates and so did two other RP supporters in my precinct. While RP only got 12.7% of the vote , he got 40% of the delegates. If the same is true in other precincts then we will be looking good to send RP supporters to the State convention.
Yep....A GOP Insider Admitted This To My Brother Today........ Submitted by ZMAN70 on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 17:36.
My brother had to have a meeting with GOP officials after becoming a delegate chair. The officials were talking to him like he was one of them.....they DID NOT KNOW HE WAS A PAUL SUPPORTER. The conversation went on for about a half and hour....
The GOP guy even told my brother that the popular vote didnt matter..lol....that it was all about the delegates....and that they were very worried about Ron Paul and his supporters getting all the delegate spots...and "hijacking" not just the Maine Convention...but the National Convention.
I'm going to post the conversation soon....don't miss it.
Once again....everyone....become a delegate!!!
They can do a lot of things....but... Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 17:15.
What history has taught us is that they won't and won;t change the game plan that has worked for a 100 years.
Ron Paul will NEVER get the nomination straight up...so we need the "Trojan Horse" strategy. And by deploying it. Actually doing it, filling the delegate slots on the precinct level, this will work.
Again, though we actually have to DO it!
Absolutely. It's ALL about the delegates... Submitted by valhallaviking on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 17:29.
A lot of people in caucus states will leave the room after the poll. THIS IS A HUGE MISTAKE. The poll is meaningless. You need to stay and either become a delegate for your precinct at the district, or vote for delegate YOU KNOW are Ron Paul people.
THIS is what it is all about.
Unless the DP is Unreliable Submitted by Achilles on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 17:23.
I remember distinctly reading here that Ron Paul supporters were instructed *by the campaign* to stay around after vote counting in various precints Iowa to secure themselves as delegates, regardless of the expectation that they were to be bound to Santorum, Romney, etc. I could be mistaken but....
Seems like a good plan to me. If it's true that after the first vote and lack of a quorum (clear majority) that all delegates are unbound, then it's all about horse-trading, favor pulling, negotiation, deal making, etc. etc. - in other words, those delegates can do anything short of illegal (blackmail and bribery which the public would have a tough time discovering) and vote any way they please / are inclined to. Nothing at all underhanded about the that - rules is rules - you just gotta learn to play by 'em, to your advantage.
The more I think about it, the more I like the whole plan.
GREAT! Achilles...and think about this Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 17:27.
Ron Paul supporters can fill the delegate slots at the precinct level, because the majority of "party" Republicans do NOT like Romney. They feel he is being forced on them. So they are NOT enthusiastic about becoming delegates for him
When a campaign sends delegates... Submitted by wolfe on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:42.
They select who they will send. Some states differ on that a little, but the point is, what you suggest is simply not possible across the board.
They would have had to have fooled the opposition campaign... Which I am sure has happened, but not nearly in a substantial way...
This is more of the *hope* that was found in 2008. It is not a strategy...
I believe this is the stealth Submitted by emptyeternity on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:25.
I believe this is the stealth delegate strategy, didnt work for us last time.
it was NOT deployed last time Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:35.
This time it is being deployed
OK you have opened my Eyes Submitted by Achilles on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:21.
Thanks...
I know this is the plan Ron has - in other words, regardless of the vote count at primary/caucus time - Paul supporters will stick around or otherwise position themselves for the delegate role to be sent to the RNC. YES they are bound by the results of the primary/caucus rules...for the first vote.
How does it work at the Submitted by T Smith on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:00.
How does it work at the County level? Say you are a delegate at the precinct level. How do you become a delegate at the County and State level? What is the process?
Each State has a State Convention where they... Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:10.
Where they choose the delegates to SEND to the National convention FROM the precinct delegates. THAT is why SUPER important to LOAD up the precinct delegate slots
I do NOT think that a candidate can transfer delegates Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 15:59.
I do not believe that a candidate that has been awarded delegates, can drop out and give those delegates to another candidate.
Anyone have the rules to know for sure??
I believe the terminology is I release my delegates, which Submitted by bytejockey on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:04.
implies they are free to vote their conscience, but there is usually an endorsement that goes along with the release.
Whether that endorsement will sway "Ron Paul" delegates remains to be seen.
But like you, I don't know for sure - just relying on memory of past conventions here.
You are correct. PERFECT!! Submitted by LionandLambMinistry on Mon, 02/06/2012 - 16:13.
therefore if it is Ron Paul people filling those slots...WHEN they are RELEASED, they will NOT follow any endorsement of any other candidate then Ron Paul.
First, it’s not a secret if you are talking about it on a website.
Second, even if your plan worked (which I highly doubt), the establishment would not allow it. They will say the majority of the voters wanted Romney and not Paul. Therefore, they give the nod to Romney.
Nice try but Paul will not be able to sneak in like you said. Even if he had 100% of the delegates.
You seem to forget the conventions are not real anymore. They are just dog and pony shows.
If Obama, Milt or Wrong Paul are elected, I’m looking at going Galt or overseas. This won’t be the country I took an oath to defend.
For instance, a second Obama Regime.
Eyebrows I can deal with. Ears not so much.
OK on going Galt, but what country would you go to? If things fall apart here, they're going to fall apart every where else, too. In such a scenario, I would think it would be unsafe for Americans in most parts of the world.
Singapore or the Philippines, I expect. Wouldn’t go to Mexico on a dare.
Fairly close to what I witnessed being attempted at the 2008 Nevada convention.
The rabid RP people tried a putsch to take over the convention and force all delegates to be RP delegates.
What they succeeded in doing was to delay action on several agenda items, such as the platform, forcing it to be adopted without discussion.
The clock ran out on time alloted, the convention had to be suspended as the convention hall rent ran out.
The most infuriating thing is that our party chair took the brunt of blame from many attendees and all the media.
The RP people escaped all responsibility, loudly claiming conspiracy theories designed to disenfranchise RP supporters, never admitting that THEY were the true conspirators!
I was not only present for the convention, I had also attended the RP meeting the night before to hear RP speak.
After he left the RP Zealots discussed their plan for the convention pretty openly, but not having been to prior meetings I did not realize the actual extent of their plan until I witnessed it during the convention.
If you have $30K to deposit here, or a provable pension of $2,200/month (65,000 baht) and are over 50, you can live here in Thailand on a retirement visa.
There are also other options. Please don’t ask me questions about visas - check out thaivisa.com (there are a lot of a$$holes there but also a wealth of useful and valid information. Look for posts by lopburi3).
I forgot to say the two can be added together to get to the $30K (actually 800,000 baht) figure, like a pension of the equivalent of 400,000 baht/year + another 400K in the bank (for at least 3 months before and after the yearly visa extension)
BUMP
so whom do you want to see win the precinct delegates ... in Maine, for example? MITT?
Since the RS and NG people are not attempting to become delegates, should we hope MITT gets them?
It isn't now, but we're never going to get it back if we bug out.
Move to Texas. If enough of us come, we can secede from the Union.
I think it's the CAUCUS states where it's easy to get yourself signed up to be a delegate. I'm not sure how it works for normal primary voting and the Paulestinians didn't seem to be talking about those. However the Paul thread does discuss the "buffer" where you become a state delegate first, and then apparently only some of those are selected to be the national convention delegates.
Also note the Ron Paul supporters are talking about states like PA where delegates apparently are not "pledged" to a candidate. So even on the FIRST round of voting, they can vote for whoever they want. And PA is one of I think 3 states where delegates are ELECTED, so they actually have to get signatures, get on the ballot, etc.
Just wanted to highlight some quotes from the first long post showing they're saying they are becoming delegates...
3 delgates alloted for my maine district. myself and my wife became delegates and the other is for romney. so technically ron just won my district with 66%
My wife and I became delegates and so did two other RP supporters in my precinct. While RP only got 12.7% of the vote , he got 40% of the delegates. If the same is true in other precincts then we will be looking good to send RP supporters to the State convention.
My brother had to have a meeting with GOP officials after becoming a delegate chair. The officials were talking to him like he was one of them.....they DID NOT KNOW HE WAS A PAUL SUPPORTER. The conversation went on for about a half and hour....
The GOP guy even told my brother that the popular vote didnt matter..lol....that it was all about the delegates....and that they were very worried about Ron Paul and his supporters getting all the delegate spots...and "hijacking" not just the Maine Convention...but the National Convention.
of course people are becoming delegates. ronpaul people
I was at 5 super-caucuses this weekend in Maine. I witnessed hundreds of delegates being elected. So what? That is why they are there. Mitt people are getting a bunch and ronPaul people are getting a bunch. Been happenin’ since 1968. Even before then.
What do you mean “so what?” This means if no one gets a majority of delegates, then the delegates can vote for whoever they want at the national convention. If Newt or Rick don’t get their supporters signing up to be delegates, then they won’t have much of a chance winning the vote at a brokered convention.
Erick Erickson wrote about Ron Paul supporters “pretending” to be delegates for other candidates a couple weeks ago...
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/01/19/the-horserace-for-january-19-2012/
A prominent friend told me some weeks ago that he noticed an odd thing. In his state, several people who have been successful in getting themselves known as very probably Mitt Romney delegates for the Republican National Convention are also his supporters. And they are not just my friends’ supporters, they are also long time staunch Ron Paul supporters.
Why then would they, long time staunch Ron Paul supporters, align this year with Mitt Romney? He made calls and talked to friends in other states. All of them saw the same thing happening — long time Dr. Paul supporters working to become delegates to the convention pledging to support Mitt Romney and others.
If the field stays fractured at this level, with only a few people, but each getting delegates enough to prevent the front runner from an outright majority, there will be a second vote at the Republican National Convention.
Delegates are only locked in for their candidate during the first vote. After the first vote, they can vote for whoever they want. So if Mitt Romney is unable to clear an outright majority on the first ballot, suddenly he could see some of his delegates turn on him — turn and go back to Ron Paul.
It is an ingenious strategy premised on a convention where no one gets majority support early. It plays well to a primary calendar where the delegates are first awarded proportionally. Who knows if it is a campaign strategy or just his volunteers, but the Paul campaign has been active now for four years trying to take over local parties.
It may pay off if the GOP doesn’t unite around a candidate soon.
these precinct caucuses are electing delegates to the state convention which is a normal part of the process.
In Portland Maine on 2/11 SAT, approximately 400 people will attend to elect about 120 (?) delegates. As perhaps only 30 Newt people and 20 Santorum people will be there, it limits the number from their groups who could be delegates. Some of them won’t agree to be delegates and some other number will not get elected, so how many of the 120 delegates will be NG or RS?
THe 10 or so Romney National delegates selected at the state convention in May, will be vetted by their campaign, so I cannot see how a Paulista could slip through.
I guess you’d hafta be there to see it all. I won’t be in Portland cuz I will likely be in Sanford and Biddeford.
These reports do seem to be saying the Ron Paul people are pretending to support other candidates. I guess that’s the kind of subterfuge they have to pull off for the plan to work. The Manchurian delegates... They are claiming in some cases few other people are “hanging around” after the caucus to become delegates, so the majority of them are Ron Paul people even though he may have only won 10% of the vote. They said they are trying to overload the caucus delegates so there’s a larger likelihood Ron Paul people will be picked at the state level.
But in 2 or 3 states like Pennsylvania, delegates are elected on the ballot, so they can get in just by running a regular campaign. And those delegates apparently aren’t pledged, so they can vote for whoever they want when they get to the convention.
Here are more Ron Paul shenanigans discussed in the reports of the Missouri caucuses. At one caucus, Ron Paul and Mitt Romney supporters teamed up to terrorize the caucus and shout other people down. Someone said they turned it into an Occupy Wall Street type of event.
In St. Charles, political blogger John Combest tweeted that order broke down in the first 10 seconds of the caucus, with Santorum, Romney and Paul groups butting heads in a “mass hysteria” over how to proceed.
State representative Matt Ehlen tried to take order, announcing that, as Combest tweeted, “The police are ready to shut us down.” As of last word, the caucus gave up and there had been no vote on delegates. “All we need is Ernie Hays on the organ to play ‘Three Blind Mice’ or the Jeopardy theme,” Combest tweeted.
In the Lewis and Clark township, township committeeman David A. Blanke told The Times that all was well. “It could have been messier,” he said. “We were expecting a large contingent of Ron Paul voters.”
In Brunswick, Harry Deweese, a construction company owner who was elected as a delegate, arrived wearing a white Ron Paul Revolution T-shirt. Before the business meeting began, his wife whispered to him, and he walked downstairs. He returned a few minutes later with a long-sleeved, collared blue shirt covering the Paul one, saying he was fearful of not becoming a delegate if he “looked like a Paul supporter.”
He said that he had never been active in politics and had hoped to represent Mr. Paul, whose views on government spending and foreign policy he supported. But he would follow the wishes of the county, he said, in its support for Mr. Santorum, whom he called “my second choice.”
He paused when asked if he would support Mr. Romney if he became the Republican nominee. Finally, he replied: “He’s a Republican Obama. He’s just like what we already have.”
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/disruption-closes-a-missouri-caucus-before-vote/
Members of crowd began shouting, “We make the rules!”
The police were called in, and two people were arrested on trespassing charges after being asked to leave when the meeting was then called to an early close.
“The police officers were worried about people’s safety and asked us to shut it down,” the event coordinator for the caucus, Bryan Spencer, said.
But some supporters of Ron Paul and Mitt Romney, who said they previously worked out a deal to nominate someone to chair the caucus, claimed that organizers broke procedural rules and that Mr. Dokes was “railroading the caucus” by closing nominations for the chair too quickly.
Volunteers for Mr. Paul’s campaign were passing out fliers as people entered, instructing them to follow the lead of two “Ron Paul Floor Captains,” who sat near the podium and planned to raise a bright yellow folder with hot pink stripes every time they wanted people to vote in a block.
“This has always been the meat and potatoes,” said Mike Carter, 40, a supporter of Mr. Paul, about the campaign’s focus on electing their delegates at the caucus.
Their general plan: “Go in and run the meeting,” Jesse Calison, 30, a Ron Paul supporter, said before the caucus began. “Beat them with the rules.”
“We came here to do business,” said Margy Harris, 68, a supporter of Mr. Santorum, “not this foolishness.”
Mr. Dokes, insisting he followed state party procedures, said the county was going to talk with the Missouri Republican Party about a way forward.
However, several individuals at the caucus said much of the consternation revolved around Ehlen himself. Ehlen became chairman after a voice vote, but the head of the county GOP organization failed to recognize any other candidate.
“All of sudden he’s the chairman and the place goes nuts,” said Tim Finch, a Paul supporter from Dardenne Prairie. “This is not how it’s supposed to work.”
Some of Paul’s supporters were also irked by an announced ban on video recording, with organizers asking police to help enforce it.
When the objections reached a fever pitch, the meeting was shut down without any delegates being awarded.
“We started speaking about the Constitution. Where’s our rights? Where are our votes? This is fascism,” said Jim Evans, another Paul supporter.
Buddy Hardin, a Romney leader and longtime behind-the-scenes force in GOP politics in St. Charles County, alleged that Santorum supporters and caucus organizers sought to close the meeting after they realized that Paul and Romney backers had formed an alliance to share the county’s delegates.
“Once they realized they didn’t have a slate and they wouldn’t get any delegates, they tanked it,” Hardin alleged. He said the shutdown was carried out “to avoid a Santorum embarrassment and loss.”
One caucus participant accused Paul and Romney supporters of “colluding” to make it impossible to conduct the meeting. Adrian Boyd, an undecided Republican from St. Peters, said both groups were so loud they drowned out the public address system.
“It was descending into an Occupy Wall Street type of an event,” Boyd said.
Police said members of the crowd were “verbally aggressive with event organizers and police officers at the scene.” Officers arrested two Paul backers after giving them “numerous warnings” to leave school property, St. Peters police said.
http://midwestdemocracy.com/articles/missouri-caucuses-marked-dissension-confusion/
Organizers shut down one of the largest GOP caucuses, in St. Charles County, because of bitter disputes between supporters of Rep. Ron Paul and attendees supporting other presidential hopefuls.
In Clay County, arguments between Paul supporters and others became so intense the caucus chairman threatened to have voters removed by force.
Backers of the Texas congressman said they were upset their views weren’t being heard. “We’re just a little frustrated because caucuses are supposed to be run by a very strict set of rules,” said Paul supporter John Findlay, who lost his bid to become caucus chairman. “We raised a number of points of order, points of information, points of parliamentary inquiry, many of which have been ignored.”
But county caucus chairman Ben Wierzbicki said all caucus-goers had been treated fairly.
“Certain people have made it very difficult on most of the people who are involved in this caucus,” he said. “It might be a little crazy, but that’s part of it.”
Attendees also firmly rejected an effort to more closely align the party platform with Paul’s views.
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