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NJ Assembly Committee To Consider Ammo Ban In The Name Of Police Safety
Ammoland ^ | 27 January, 2012 | NJRPC

Posted on 01/28/2012 6:10:47 AM PST by marktwain

A588 would enable the Attorney General to ban handgun and rifle ammunition by executive fiat.

Trenton, NJ --( Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets!

Additional legislation being considered (A1013) could land gun owners in jail for refinished or damaged firearms that might be deemed “defaced”

On Monday, January 30 at 2:00 p.m. the New Jersey Assembly Law & Public Safety Committee is scheduled to consider A588, legislation that would enable the Attorney General to ban all handgun and most rifle ammunition if he unilaterally determines that it “poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers.”

Cleverly disguised as police safety legislation aimed at armor piercing ammunition (which is already prohibited under federal and state law), the measure actually opens the door to a sweeping ammunition ban by an unelected public official by executive fiat. Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and non-metallic ammunition like plastic airsoft pellets, if the Attorney General decides that they pose a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement.

Although the bill only mentions handgun ammunition, it is in fact not limited to handgun ammunition, and would apply to all rifle ammunition for which a handgun if ever made. As an increasing number of gun manufacturers make handgun models that shoot rifle caliber ammunition, the line between “handgun” vs. “rifle” ammunition has become blurred, and the New Jersey State Police have already begun treating rifle ammunition in this category as if it were handgun ammunition for regulatory purposes.

So long as a handgun exists that shoots a particular caliber of rifle ammunition, New Jersey treats that ammunition as if it were handgun ammunition.

The Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee is also scheduled to consider A1013 on Monday. One provision of this police safety legislation significantly increases the penalties relating to “defaced” firearms. Because of New Jersey’s longstanding poorly crafted definition of “defaced” firearms, it is possible that refinishing a firearm, or long-term damage from rust or scratches from ordinary wear and tear, could be deemed “defacement” subjecting honest gun owners to lengthy prison sentences, even though identifying information on the firearm is still legible.





* Charles Mainor (Chair) (D31) Phone: 201-536-7851 Fax: 201-536-7854

* Gilbert L. Wilson (Vice Chair) (D5) Phone: 856-547-4800 Fax: 856-547-5496

* Nelson T. Albano (D1) Phone: 609-465-0700 Fax: 609-465-4578

* Daniel R. Benson (D14) Phone: 609-631-0198 Fax: 609-631-0324

* Sean Connors (D33)

* Joseph Cryan (D20) Phone: 908-624-0880 Fax: 908-624-0587

* Sean T. Kean (R30) Phone: 732-974-0400 Fax: 732-974-2564

* Gregory P. McGuckin (R10) Phone: 732-974-0400 Fax: 732-840-9757

* Erik Peterson (R23) Phone: 908-238-0251 Fax: 908-238-0256

* David P. Rible (R30) Phone: 732-974-1719 Fax: 732-974-3615

* Bonnie Watson Coleman (D15) Phone: 609-292-0500 Fax: 609-633-2179

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: ammo; ban; banglist; nj
Something seems fundamentally wrong with giving a member of the executive branch this ability to legislate by fiat.

Is this a product of the progressive era?

1 posted on 01/28/2012 6:10:50 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Can't ban firearms?
Ban the ammo.
2 posted on 01/28/2012 6:13:19 AM PST by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: marktwain

Leave it to a politician to lower the bar, and then crawl under it.

Like this will work.

Keep it up, libs.

Revolution II is coming.

3 posted on 01/28/2012 6:14:01 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: marktwain

Reminds me of a trip to walmart. I bought a brick of .22 rimfire. The lady asked if I was buying this for a handgun or for a rifle? Didn’t think much of it, just thought she was curious. I told her I was going to shoot it in a rifle.
She said good, if this was handgun ammunition she would have to get a manager to approve the sale.

4 posted on 01/28/2012 6:16:30 AM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: marktwain

NJ? Why am I not surprised?


5 posted on 01/28/2012 6:24:54 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: DugwayDuke

She was following the law. If the .22 is being purchased for a rifle, you have to be 18. If you purchase it for a hangun, you have to be 21.

6 posted on 01/28/2012 6:27:30 AM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: marktwain

Perfect example of legislative overreach. Why have a Bill of Rights or even pretend natural God-granted rights exist if any legislature can reclaim them at whim?

We need to relearn the subtle difference between inalienable and unalienable.

7 posted on 01/28/2012 6:29:02 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: DugwayDuke

If it does hit the fan, .22 rimfire ammo will be more valuable than gold.

8 posted on 01/28/2012 6:29:17 AM PST by hadaclueonce (scrap copper is more than $3.00 a pound. wind generators are full of copper)
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To: Da Coyote

“Revolution II is coming.”

It almost seems as if the left (which nowadays includes Dem politicos everywhere, so indoctrinated they have become) are intentionally setting the stage for just that. Oh, well; they will get their wish. It’s about to get very, very dark in America, and God only knows when — or if — the sun will ever shine again.

I now think that, unfortunately, a revolution or civil war is inevitable; there is no reconciliation possible between the competing values and philosophies, so polarized we have become as a nation and as a people.

I am reminded of what Winston Churchill said oh those many years ago:

“If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

God help us.

9 posted on 01/28/2012 6:34:05 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: Azeem

The same thing happened to me at Walmart a couple weeks ago, but I am 60 so I doubt seriously if it had anything to do with age. Sounds more like Big Brother is on the prowl.

10 posted on 01/28/2012 6:36:33 AM PST by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: marktwain
Mexican marijuana smugglers say to let them know when smuggling a controlled substance you shoot makes them as much $$$ as smuggling a controlled substance you smoke...they're ready to expand their operation...
11 posted on 01/28/2012 6:38:37 AM PST by AnTiw1
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To: hadaclueonce

Maybe, but I’d bet 5.56 x 45 will be in huge demand.

12 posted on 01/28/2012 6:40:34 AM PST by benewton
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To: marktwain

Let’s ban police in the interests of canine safety.

13 posted on 01/28/2012 6:41:32 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Limbaugh: Tim Tebow miracle: "He had atheists praying to God that he would lose.")
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To: grobdriver

I would think that if this ever made it to the SCOTUS it’d be one of the rights that are associated with the 2nd Amendment.

It should be obvious, what’s the point of keeping and bearing arms if you have no ammo?

But one can only wonder.

14 posted on 01/28/2012 6:44:30 AM PST by thatjoeguy (MAYDAY! MAYDAY! We are so going in ! !)
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To: DugwayDuke

This is funny! But it is New Jersey.

There IS a difference between handgun and rifle ammo, once one gets above .22 caliber. The reason is that the long barrel of a rifle allows time for a larger propellant charge to be effective. The bullet should be accelerating all during its travel through the bore. In a pistol, there is not such a long travel-time in the barrel, so a large charge in an elongate cartridge makes little sense.

Really bizarre pistols are now being made which use certain rifle cartridges. From the standpoint of realistic design, these things are a joke, and an inefficient joke. I saw one of those weapons which has a tiny, short barrel, perhaps about 1 cm long. The barrel was much shorter than the cartridge itself! It means that most of the powder in the gigantic cartridge is being wasted, and goes only to make much smoke and noise.

The pending NJ bill is just as stupid, and has nothing to do with officer safety.

If the state were interested really in public safety, they would issue pistol carry permits to law abiding citizens, as is done in about three-quarters of the states; and then they could watch the crime rates drop. It is not a particular style of gun or cartridge which threatens police officers: it is criminals who threaten them, and criminals also threaten everyone else. The courts in NJ made this mess, and they must be reformed for the protection of everyone.

It is interesting that back in the days of Gov. Christie Whitman (a liberal, or RINO), a law was passed allowing retired policemen to have pistol-carry permits. The stated purpose was to have more good guys around who were armed, and thus increase public safety. Actually, this was a perfectly good idea, and it is now law. Well, there is very little difference between a superannuated, retired policeman and me. Arm qualified citizens, and you get the same effect. That is what NJ should be doing.

I am not an extremist about this: I favor permitting, and I think training would be a good thing. (I wish drivers were better trained!) But the point is, the more armed lawful people, the better the protection from the criminal elements.

15 posted on 01/28/2012 6:57:13 AM PST by docbnj
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To: marktwain

There is no way in pluperfect hell this would stand a court challenge. The SCOTUS has been very clear that ammo is just as much part of the 2nd Amendment as are guns themselves.

Working off the assumption that the Democrat legislature has been advised of this fact by their legal advisors, it likely means that they are just creating this to appeal to their anti-gun supporters and to force Christie to veto it.

16 posted on 01/28/2012 7:00:20 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: marktwain
This is the same circle-jerk that Left has been dancing for the past fifty years.

If they can't get this law passed, they'll try for a $100 per cartridge/shell tax. And if they can't get that passed, they will try for a firing pin imprint. And if they can't get that they will go for serial numbers on all cartridges/shells/projectiles. And if they can't get that...

17 posted on 01/28/2012 8:16:00 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (FOREIGN AID: A transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries)
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To: marktwain

Jersey voters worship cops. Ditto the suburbs of NY.

18 posted on 01/28/2012 8:25:17 AM PST by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: marktwain

More evidence of the communists takeover of America.

19 posted on 01/28/2012 8:28:20 AM PST by Logical me
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To: docbnj

“There IS a difference between handgun and rifle ammo, once one gets above .22 caliber.”

You are correct in that a longer barrel allows the powder to burn more completely and provides for larger muzzle velocities.

It is not always the case that a difference exists between handgun and rifle ammunition. Take for example the 44 Magnum. There are many different rifles and pistols chambered for that round. Same cartridge case, same bullets, and same powder loads regardless of whether it is to be fired from a rifle or a pistol. Yes, the muzzle velocities are different.

The reason for the ‘sameness’ is product liability. The makers of ammunition will not sell a cartridge that isn’t safe in all guns chambered for that cartridge. (Ok, some exceptions but it’s a pretty general rule.)

But of more relevence to the topic, most of the handguns chambered for rifle cartridges are single shot, have a very long barrel (for a pistol), and are very specialized, ie, target shooting or unique hunting applications. The idea that they would be a weapon of choice for a criminal is ludicrous.

This law is nothing more than the typical gun grabber attempt at banning firearms and ammunition using the salami slice. Ban a few here, ban a few there, and pretty soon you ban them all. In this case, you can find a single shot pistol with a 10 to 14 inch barrel chambered for most of the common rifle cartridges. In fact, many of these firearms allow you to fire cartridges of different caliber by switching barrels. If passed, this law would, in effect, ban ammunition for almost all hunting rifles. (I’ve even seen one in 45-70, think buffalo hunting.)

BTW, this is similar to the way Mexico bans almost all firearms. Their laws only ban ‘military’ firearms. But, they interpret that law in this way. If somewhere in the world at some time, a military adopted a particular cartridge, then that cartridge is a military cartridge and all firearms that fire that cartridge are military firearms and are banned.

20 posted on 01/28/2012 9:18:39 AM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: marktwain
I misunderstood the title... I thought this was going to be a "Barney Fife" ruling, where the police were banned from carrying ammunition.

Actually, it would probably make more sense, given the corruption in NJ. The last thing you want is serious criminals to be armed. And save a log of family pets.


21 posted on 01/28/2012 10:21:20 AM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: benewton

I am betting that there are more firearms that fire the .22 rimfire than the 5.56.

A gut shot with a .22 rimfire will just be as fatal as a .45 in the head when it hits the fan.

Just as a matter of timing.

More .22’s out here than blades of grass.

22 posted on 01/28/2012 2:49:18 PM PST by hadaclueonce (scrap copper is more than $3.00 a pound. wind generators are full of copper)
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To: MarkL

I was so incensed when a store employee at Dick’s Sporting Goods asked me for my Firearm Purchaser’s ID card for a box of .22LR. I said: “Why? It’s for a rifle.” He replied: “Yes, but it can be used in a pistol as well, so we have to log the purchase.” Thankfully, PA isn’t too far away, where such nonsense is not tolerated.

23 posted on 01/29/2012 7:07:11 AM PST by Seamus Mc Gillicuddy
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To: Clemenza
That has always fascinated me.
The Jersey State Gestapo, I mean cops,
always looked a little too
"Deutschland Uber Alles"
to me.

With all the tribesmen in Jersey,
how does that work?

24 posted on 01/30/2012 6:06:37 AM PST by trickyricky
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