Gingrich 'prepared to take the heat' with talk of amnesty ("Let's be humane in enforcing the law")

The Los Angeles Times ^ | 2011-11-22 | Kim Geiger

[Theodore R.]

Well, if you left that ol’ Dick Lugar off your list, bash away.

[Theodore R.]

If McPain were to see this headline, he might well take the hint. Supposedly, he had considered a party switch in 2004 to support John F. Kerry.

[stephenjohnbanker]

I have despised Dick Lugar, the globalist POS for many years.

[NoRedTape]

"Call me crazy but I couldn’t do that to families either and I’m no Gingrich supporter. I don’t think it’s a magnet either because he’s talking about grandfathering these people in not that we would allow newcomers to stay.

I haven’t always believed this way. I just think that this country has always been about both justice AND mercy. It’s easy to be angry with them for sneaking into our country and using up our resources, I know that.

However, if they have helped this country and have been good people here and have made a life and love this country I think we can work with them going through the citizen process.

I agree. Especially since for the past 60 years or so illegal farmworkers have been beckoned here by the Gov and by Farms with virtually no hassles.

[Zack Attack]

Yeah these guys are making it very hard to even hold your nose while voting anymore. I’m sick of every election having to do that anyway.

[JudgemAll]

more Newt propsganda. This narcissist gives a crap
about humane and how Mexico blackmails illegals.

Humane? As in Stephanopoulos excusing a rapist as
“all too humane”?

Total anarchy and enablement of terror and perversaion. Fits that
Philandering Newt to a T, all after profiting from the Cain smear.

That is just rich. He reminds of the foster parent who does nothing
and let the kid molest his daughter.

Newt is unfit and a confused coward.

[JudgemAll]

Newt’s language of humane does not reflect the
values of character or firmness you talk about.

Illegals need no pro terrorist favoritism in their midst
and nor do we need it.

[JudgemAll]

Indeed, it is those Rinos who attack conservatives, divide the party, instead of calling Zero and his terror gang of democrates.

[JudgemAll]

They talk about action and unity while they give
government favoritism through civil rights thus
allowing cover for terror.

This country should worry about INTEGRITY, it has none.

[Impy]

Freepers don’t need to be told that Obama sucks, duh we already know.

Some freepers though need to be educated about RINOs.

[DoughtyOne]

Your answer is well thought out and appreciate your honesty in the way you answered this.  Thank you. 

Over the years I have noted that there was always a group out there that saw modern society as having reached it's current zenith by evil means.  I agree that man is sinful, but I also believe that many people try to do what is right by their fellow man.  So while I don't think it's appropriate to try to avoid the truth of some things that have taken place, I still think it is vital that we see these things in context, consider the knowledge of the day when things took place and other factors, not just the evil intent of man.  Another-words, what is actual truth?

Trying to achieve decent goals, can have devistating negative impact.  Introducing European disease to people that couldn't deal with it, was not an evil act.  If you look at the Western understanding of disease (and particularly communicable disease), in the day, it's startling to see how stupidly we protected ourselves in that era.

I also find it rather interesting that liberal dogma necessitates man's psychological need to invent god.  It doesn't dwell on or recognize man's psychological need to re-evaluate self, and often in a very unfavorable light.  We attribute evil intent sometimes wisely, and often-times not.  We see our forefathers as evil for doing certain things we do today, but don't see it as evil today.

We see a constant drumb-beat of negativity about slavery in the day and how we should be held accountable now, but hear nothing at all about slavery that takes place in Africa today.  The United States only accounted for a small percentage of the global slavery that took place in the era of slavery, but it is the only place in the world where the black populace is still trying to blame it's total failings on slavery.

There is only complexity of this issue because of man’s lack of ability to love others...

Man does not have an inability to love others.  U.S. citizens and corporations paid out $290 billion dollars in charitable giving in 2010.  LINK  Our government pays out approaching half a trillion dollars per year to U. S. citizens who supposedly need help, even if they don't.  We error on the side of handing out freebies in excess, simply so we won't be seen as uncaring.

We donate at church, at work, to the Salvation Army, to a myriad of concerns too numerous to mention.  We donate to local schools.  We donate on a whim if a neighbor or someone at work is going though a rough time.  If the school athletic team needs new equipment, we pitch in.  If the local symphony has a need, we pitch in.  If a homeless shelter needs help, we volunteer our time.

We do these things because we have an inherent drive to help others.  Please don't forget this in your haste to list the evils of man.  There is that too, but man is also a noble being.

...and respect the fact that the entire earth was open for everyone to live wherever one chooses too live.

As far back as recorded history goes, man has been known to be posessive and protective of territory.  Whether it be for hunting grounds, a safety parimiter, a collective area governed by the same sets of rules, man has found it necessary to be protective of his immediate environment.  If you have 200 people to feed and you have found a bountiful supply to keep them alive, is it reasoned to think you should allow another group to come in and start culling the herd so it won't meet your own community's needs?  These types of situations are bound to crop up.  It is not evidence of evil.  It is evidence of self-preservation.  Man's number one priority is self-preservation.  It is not evil.  The earth was never entirely wide open for anyone to inhabit, post sin.

It is only complex now because we have allowed greed to rule and we are now at a phase to protect the material things we have from others.

It would seem to me, that taken to it's full conclusion, you would state that man should have no worldly posessions.  Are we wrong to have civilization that is advanced technologically?  Is it wrong to have developed music, technology, and the sciences to the degree we have?  Should we have remained living in mud huts and dying early in life due to common mortal diseases we have found cures for?

Should we have shunned cars, airplanes, ships, telephones, television, the sciences, even though those things expanded our horizons?  If your child needs health care, are they the one we should refuse to use technology on?  Should we not send them to the hospital quickly, so they can be saved?  Should they dye at 32 because we don't know how to perform an appendectomy?  Where do we draw this sort of line?

Is it wrong for us to try to protect our homeland and our civilization?   Should we allow other cultures to swamp us, take what we have, and govern us as they see fit?

We are at the point were politics and laws can not solve this anywhere.

Not really, we aren't.  We are at the point where we have lost the will to live by civilized laws.  It doesn't have to be that way, and we are verging on total anarchy, due to the lack of a governing spine, but it doesn't have to be that way, and nobody in the end will benefit from the meltdown that is taking place.  Even those who are ushering it in, will pay a heavy toll under any replacement society.

I Pray for an event from God to help us, mankind has no answer.

Mankind has the same answer that served us well for over 200 years.  It wasn't perfect, but it was light years better than what lies just ahead.

Satan has an answer too.  And right now, we're following his lead.

Man can choose to return to God, or he can sink back into the primordial muck, anything goes and no law will be seen as good and ultimate anarchy will exist.

If that takes place, it won't take generations to condemn what we have ushered in.  The darkness that will enshroud this old world would make the post apocalyptic zombie movies look tame.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you. I believe everyone in our society has been harmed far more than they realize.

This is not an innocent, nobody gets hurt, type of crime.

[DoughtyOne]

I appreciate your take on it, but around 1982, my son was one of about three children in his class that was White. The room was run by the illegal immigrant children, and they ganged up on my kid during recess breaks too.

This was not a problem of easy credit. It was a problem of easy criminality at the local level.

[stfassisi]

Look,dear friend, I was being very vague and a little cynical in my responses. I thought you might have picked up om that.

I guess I need to explain further.

There is goodness in many people ,not just Americans. Many have been brainwashed into thinking that just giving to charities and the other things you mentioned are somehow better than the person who gives a cool glass of water to a thirsty beggar on the street.

It’s not the amount given,it’s the intent of genuine love for others. I believe it was Saint Francis Xavier who said “we should serve the poor as if we are their slaves”

People like Soros give large amounts of money away, but it’s to fit his personal agenda and not for love of others

As for material things and technology... these things are good as long as they don’t become materialism,consumerism and lead us cherish these things and become golden calf’s in our life.

You’re correct when you say that things don’t have to be the way they are right now but the reality is that there is so much divisiveness in the world right now that working towards common good seems unachievable since people don’t even have a clue what authentic common good towards love is and confuse it with socialism ,gay rights,and all the other moral atrocities etc..

St. Clement of Alexandria said the following...

A person does good through love.

His actions are not motivated by desire for personal benefit, so he does not have personal advantage as his aim. But as soon as he has realized the beauty of doing good, he does it with all his energies and in all that he does.

He is not interested in fame, or a good reputation, or a human or divine reward.

The rule of life for a perfect person is to be in the image and likeness of God.

—St. Clement of Alexandria

[DoughtyOne]

Look,dear friend, I was being very vague and a little cynical in my responses. I thought you might have picked up om that.  Not trying to be difficult here, but did you expect me to let your comments stand without responding?  How am I supposed to know where your vagueness and cyncism start and leave off.  I tried to respond in generic terms, not trying to be confrontational.

I guess I need to explain further.  Okay...

There is goodness in many people ,not just Americans.   This is a commonly held view, and to a point it is accurate.  Still, in overall terms, it's a misleading statement.  One would have us believe that the people in the U.S. give no more than the people of other nations do, but that isn't the case.

Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?

A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.

LINK

Many have been brainwashed into thinking that just giving to charities and the other things you mentioned are somehow better than the person who gives a cool glass of water to a thirsty beggar on the street.

Please note the part of the above clipping in red.  Americans do voluteer their time, and at rates far in excess of people in other nations.

It’s not the amount given,it’s the intent of genuine love for others. I believe it was Saint Francis Xavier who said “we should serve the poor as if we are their slaves”

That's a very nice well intended comment.  I do not however think that as a father or mother, people should be serving the poor as if they were their slaves.  Charitable giving in reasoned amounts is good.  Volunteering is fine.  So is supporting your family through attendence in their efforts.  So is sitting on your posterior and clearing your mind during the week.  Keeping in close contact with your children's activities, whether it be studies or extra-curricular activites is also serving the Lord.  Spending time with the family in other ways is also healthy.

People like Soros give large amounts of money away, but it’s to fit his personal agenda and not for love of others

Soros gives money away to his tax deductable non-profits.  It isn't charitable giving.  Whether he claims his donations on his tax returns or not, it is agenda driven.  It's not to help the poor, and more often than not it's focused on toppling reasoned Western governments, as opposed to socialist totalitarian ones.

As for material things and technology... these things are good as long as they don’t become materialism,consumerism and lead us cherish these things and become golden calf’s in our life.

Okay, well, I am willing to concede that these things can become a golden calf in our life, but it's a real slipery slope when folks start talking about materalism and consumerism.  People create products.  Consumers buy them.  This employs people and allows us not only to free up more time to spend with family or volunteer, it can also lead us to have enriched lives.  Some folks think of television as a materialst consumer item.  It's also a very educational device.  It can also provide a few hours for folks to relax in the evening.  Who is to judge this?

You’re correct when you say that things don’t have to be the way they are right now but the reality is that there is so much divisiveness in the world right now that working towards common good seems unachievable since people don’t even have a clue what authentic common good towards love is and confuse it with socialism ,gay rights,and all the other moral atrocities etc..

Well, I agree with this in part.  I do however think the vast majority realizes that closing banks, shutting down Wall Street, disolving corporations, and talking away 75% of a working man's salary is a very poor plan for the future.  Now, do we turn the reigns of our nation over to a small contingent of rabble-rousers?  Do we let them make all the decisions for our future?  This isn't even close to a gray area issue.

St. Clement of Alexandria said the following...  You actually put me in an awkward position here, because I don't have a penchant for taking these individuals to task.  I still think there is plenty of reason to object to some of these simplistic platitudes.

A person does good through love.  A person can also do good out of respect.  A person can do good out of personal responsibility, sans love.   I don't believe that people can only do good out of or through love.

His actions are not motivated by desire for personal benefit, so he does not have personal advantage as his aim.  While this sounds good on the face of it, it is patently irrational bordering on the absurd.

What is the general obligation of an adult?  Isn't it to grow up to be a good person, develop a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, get married, establish a home with them, bring forth children into this world, raise them to be good citizens to replace us, and eventually die when our righteous life is spent?  It's my take that a Christ centered life should be part of this.  It's my take that we should share our success with our church, our community, our government, and a cross section of charitable organizations.  Personal advantage is a part of this equasion.  Joseph worked to put a roof over his family's head.  He provided for them.  He did not completely remove personal benefit from his life.

It is also a fact that the more successful we are, the more we can monetarily support good causes.  And while it is true that wealthy people pay less as a percentage than people who make less, it also amounts to more money.  It is not a sign of sin for people to seek to achieve success.

But as soon as he has realized the beauty of doing good, he does it with all his energies and in all that he does.

I'm not going to argue with this, but I will state that I don't think charity becomes our primary motivating goal that drives everything else we do.

He is not interested in fame, or a good reputation, or a human or divine reward.  LOL, so the good man is not supposed to care if his character is viewed favorably by the community or not.  He is not supposed to care if his activities will represent Christianity in a good light.  He is not supposed to care if he will go to heaven or not.  Wow, good to know.

The rule of life for a perfect person is to be in the image and likeness of God.

So we should all wear robes, walk everywhere we go, live only at the largess of others, never earn an income, never have any posessions...  Is this really what you think God wants every Christian to live like?  I don't think so.

—St. Clement of Alexandria

[stfassisi]

Please note the part of the above clipping in red. Americans do voluteer their time, and at rates far in excess of people in other nations.

This only proves that we need to puff ourselves up. A true giver hides what they do from statistics and are not counted by them

That's a very nice well intended comment. I do not however think that as a father or mother, people should be serving the poor as if they were their slaves. Charitable giving in reasoned amounts is good. Volunteering is fine. So is supporting your family through attendence in their efforts. So is sitting on your posterior and clearing your mind during the week. Keeping in close contact with your children's activities, whether it be studies or extra-curricular activites is also serving the Lord. Spending time with the family in other ways is also healthy.

I know people that do all these things you say and still serve the poor as if they are slaves to them.

What does that make you? Lazy?

Soros gives money away to his tax deductable non-profits.

And somehow you think that many of the people in the statistics you posted don't do the same

You actually put me in an awkward position here, because I don't have a penchant for taking these individuals to task. I still think there is plenty of reason to object to some of these simplistic platitudes.

Compared to Saint Clement it is you who are simplistic. I doubt anyone will quote D-one from FR as being some scholar of love and knowledge, I also doubt anyone would quote me either

While this sounds good on the face of it, it is patently irrational bordering on the absurd.

At some point in your life you will be thought of as a nothing so it would be better to let go of your pride now while you can

It is also a fact that the more successful we are, the more we can monetarily support good causes.

Complete nonsense. People like Saint Padre Pio did more for the poor than you or I or will ever do

I will pray that the fall you're headed for is lessened

[Clemenza]

Wal Mart has done more for the poor than Mother Teresa, who preached a slave morality that keeps the poor poor, while flying around in jets paid for by nefarious individuals.

[Jane Austen]

I find Newt scary. His stance on illegal aliens is revealing of a dark side. There is supposed to be a dvd (maybe from the John Birch Society) that supposedly can be devastating for him. Does anybody know what it is?

[stfassisi]

Hell awaits you.

[stfassisi]

Big Man.

Pick on a women who held dying children in her arms offering love while you sit on your but doing nothing.

Love bothers evil people!