Skip to comments.
To Save Our Economy, Ditch Taiwan (NYT op-ed)
New York Times ^
| PAUL V. KANE
| PAUL V. KANE
Posted on 11/11/2011 7:48:23 PM PST by reaganaut1
click here to read article
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60 last
To: PhilDragoo
To: Jonty30
Has Hong Kong suffered from being re-integration?
Not the right question. For Hong Kong or Taiwan. Let me school you.
American military power is for the defense of America, American interests, including economic interests, America's allies and, yes, America's global hegemony, commonly called "The West", which makes America safe worldwide against the rise of rivals and those who envy and would undermine America in the absence of the credible threat of massive force. That is the reality of the world.
Yes, we believe that people are better off by being part of "The West". The people of Hong Kong may be making money - by exporting stuff to "The West". But can they freely speak their minds? Can they freely come and go? This is our raison d'etre but these are still not the right questions in realpolitik.
The essential question is would it be a loss to "The West" and an enhancement to a potential rival? If the answer is "Yes", then the strategic value of every part as a bulwark is far greater than just its individual intrinsic economic or social value. One could just as well ask whether it is worth a World War over San Diego or any other single American city that an enemy might demand in exchange for temporary "peace", as to ask that about Taiwan or Tokyo.
Has Hong Kong, a beachhead on the Asian continent, been a gain to a rival and a loss to the power, economic as well as military, of "The West"? The answer is emphatically yes. And hundreds of thousands leaving before its transfer and millions of others denied that opportunity testify to which side of the line is more desirable.
While the issue of Hong Kong had the veneer of legality - its "lease" had expired and a 50-year "transition" had been negotiated - the abandonment of Taiwan would have no such rationale and would shake confidence in America worldwide, a confidence that is the reciprocal for being an ally and part of "The West". While few may rush to join our greatest adversaries, at some point, "The West" could fracture into multiple mutually suspicious and hostile spheres, such as existed before WWI and WWII. That could lead to another World War rather than ease tensions. The unity of "The West" under American leadership, stitched together from WWII and the Cold War, is far too valuable to sacrifice to temporarily appease a potential enemy, as Neville Chamberlain was taught in 1938 and 1939.
As far as the debt to China, even if the current bill were marked "PAID", we would likely just run up another one. And then whose liberty would we trade for it? Trading people for money is sometimes forced but to do it cynically and straight up undermines the very principles the created "The West" that made it different and better than anything else contemporaneous or that has gone before. That is a threat to America that simply cannot be countenanced.
42
posted on
11/11/2011 9:33:17 PM PST
by
UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
(REPEAL WASHINGTON! -- Islam Delenda Est! -- I Want Constantinople Back. -- Rumble thee forth.)
To: reaganaut1; All
“But the status quo is dangerous; if Taiwanese nationalist politicians decided to declare independence or if Beijings hawks tired of waiting for integration and moved to take Taiwan by force, America could suddenly be drawn into a multitrillion-dollar war.”
If “RED” China chooses such a bellecose action then war with them is called for, and we should execute in aggressively. America would NO honour if we allowed China to conquer Taiwan.
China wants to conquer this country and supplant us on the world stage. They will do it both economically and militarily. We cannot afford to be lax on either front. We are already in serious problems in regards to our debt to China...this needs to be remedied, but we must maintain a strong an viable military because IF we remedy the economic, they will sooner use the military option.
It is in the United States short and long term interests to help maintain a free Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. Should those countries help bear the cost....of course. However, we should NEVER abandon them. To do so is to invite Chinese agression.
43
posted on
11/11/2011 9:43:08 PM PST
by
Sola Veritas
(Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
To: reaganaut1
I thought that what happened to Czechoslovakia at Munich was the high point of national perfidy, I could be wrong. That the Times would publish this BS speaks volumes.
To: hinckley buzzard
Japan would immediately develop its own atomic bomb.
45
posted on
11/11/2011 10:39:01 PM PST
by
kabar
To: goldstategop
Let’s see, 1.14T of debt forgiveness would just about balance this year’s budget but would do nothing to reduce the 14T+ total Federal debt....sell out an ally in order to kick the debt can down the road for a little while longer. What a lying piece of used dog food. This will do nothing to cure our economic woes as it does not address the fundamental problem of our spending more than we take in. It does nothing to enhance our security as it emboldens China in that we can be bought...no ally is safe if the price is right.
46
posted on
11/11/2011 11:25:49 PM PST
by
yadent
To: reaganaut1
How would 1 Trillion Dollars save our economy? Other than guaranteeing that Taiwan declares independence after it buys nuclear weapons from someone (Iran, Ukraine, Russia, Israel) secure its peace, what is gained? The US looks weak.
Alternatively, lets say Taiwan can't procure nukes, and is invaded, we look even weaker and all the Asia is destabilized. We start lossing allies left and right and people begin to rethink the whole US currency as the international currency deal. We loose a lot more than 1 Trillion.
47
posted on
11/11/2011 11:27:55 PM PST
by
rmlew
("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
To: PhilDragoo
Taiwan is not mostly indigenous. While only 15% of the population are Nationalist refugees and descendants, 83% are benshengren, or native Chinese. Only 1% to 2% are the the Taiwanese aborigines; the Amis, Atayal, Bunun, Paiwan. There is some intermarriage so the numbers are not precise.
I happen to support an independent Taiwan because it is not mainland China. If there can be two Koreas, which share a lot more, and the US and Canada can be independent, Taiwan and China can be separate nations.
48
posted on
11/11/2011 11:35:03 PM PST
by
rmlew
("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
To: reaganaut1; GeronL; goldstategop
I agree with the one line
Taiwan.. is gradually integrating with China economically by investing in and forming joint ventures with mainland Chinese firmsTaiwan has been playing us for fools while building up the Chinese economy -- they are one of the largest investors on the mainland.
They are not our allies.
We should stick to our real friends -- Japan, South Korea, Australia -- the Taiwanese sealed their own faith.
49
posted on
11/11/2011 11:44:01 PM PST
by
Cronos
To: reaganaut1
“The author is a Marine, according to the byline.”
That $1.14 trillion of American debt represents about 10 months of deficit spending at current rates. That seems like a pretty cheap price to sell out a friend.
To come to think of it, wasn’t John Murtha a Marine?
To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
51
posted on
11/11/2011 11:59:36 PM PST
by
newzjunkey
(Republicans will find a way to reelect Obama and Speaker Pelosi.)
To: rmlew
No, no; that is splittist. You require re-education.
52
posted on
11/12/2011 12:26:45 AM PST
by
PhilDragoo
(Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
To: reaganaut1
hmm.. so our national security depends on cow-towing to China? in a pig’s eye
it is because of America’s ‘military prowess’, that countries have been able to form stable governments and actually participate in trade - i.e., buying American goods and services and providing Americans with jobs, in exchange for us bringing their peaceful societies under the protective deterrant umbrella of our military might.
So soon has Tibet been forgotten. And so blind have some become to the arms buildup of Russia and China, who are both more focused on gaining resources than sustaining peaceful nations who can trade uninterrupted by conflict.
53
posted on
11/12/2011 1:36:37 AM PST
by
blueplum
To: GeronL
I see the price of betrayal has gone up. Judas sold Jesus out for 30 Silver pieces. According to the NYT he should have held out for more.
54
posted on
11/12/2011 2:53:54 AM PST
by
Yorlik803
(better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
To: reaganaut1
It might be awful but I've had the same thought. As reasoned conservatives we must consider what our opponent, our enemy might do -- and our opponent and our enemy acting together.
And I've recently thought China could save Bobo's ass by debt forgiveness -- the only way to save his re-election, frankly.
However, two things would derail Bobo attempting such a deal: China does not want to pay for US entitlement programs — and that’s exactly what Bobo would do; and China may believe it can get a better deal with Mittens — and unfortunately perhaps rightfully so.
To: reaganaut1
Here’s a better idea. Let’s give China a hundred year lease on San Francisco for 10 trillion or so. It’s a win/win.
57
posted on
11/12/2011 4:07:16 AM PST
by
saganite
(What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
To: All
58
posted on
11/12/2011 4:49:00 AM PST
by
onyx
(PLEASE SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC BY DONATING NOW! Sarah's New Ping List - tell me if you want on it.)
To: reaganaut1
There is such a thing as national honorAnd I'm sure the KMT will go down bravely, so that their honor is satisfied.
59
posted on
11/12/2011 4:50:51 AM PST
by
Jim Noble
(To live peacefully with credit-based consumption and fiat money, men would have to be angels.)
To: reaganaut1
The author is a Marine, according to the byline. When they wanted to begin their campaign of slagging the Confederate flag back in 1991, they got a Southerner, Ray Garganus, to write their screed for them.
When they want to shank someone, the Timesmen always look for a tool.
60
posted on
11/12/2011 6:09:11 AM PST
by
lentulusgracchus
(Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60 last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson