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Here you go:

JOHN HARWOOD: To clarify one philosophical point. You have a flat-tax option in your plan, but of course there are deductions, and— in some preferences, the personal exemption that takes some people off the rolls. Do you fundamentally believe we should not have a progressive tax system in the country?

RICK PERRY: I do. I think you need to have a tax system that basically is flat, fair and simple. And— that you can put on a post card. I mean, even Timothy Geithner could do this one and get it on time. So my point is—

JOHN HARWOOD: But the idea of taking— of having— higher rates— of various kinds for people who earn more are not right?

RICK PERRY: I don’t agree with that. My deal is have a flat, simple tax. And— Americans want— Americans I hope— aspire to be— be wealthy. I hope they aspire to have a better quality of life. And we have this class warfare that’s going on now. And I don’t agree with that. I’m interested in people getting to work. And folks who generally have money are the ones who invest money, that hire folks, so that those folks who get hired can work their way up to become someday owning the company.

JOHN HARWOOD: And you mentioned class warfare. In 1996, when your advisor Steve Forbes was running on a flat tax, Mitt Romney said it was a tax cut for fat cats. If he says that about your plan, what are you going to say to him?

RICK PERRY: Well I would said that he ought to go look in the mirror I guess. I consider him to be a fat cats. Because— here it doesn’t matter to me what— what, you know, anybody says about this. I know what will work. And I’m more interested in getting people out there, investing in their companies— bringing back this— this money that’s offshore.

We’ve sent a rate of 5.25 percent to bring those offshore moneys back in here. I want it in America. I want it creating jobs here. I’ll promise you one thing, the corporate tax rate is at 20 percent too. You put a 20 percent tax rate which puts us down then average what it is across America— or across the world, rather— and you remove these onerous regulations, we can bring manufacturing back into this country.

JOHN HARWOOD: What does this say about the difference between you and Mitt Romney, that he’s proposed a plan that preserves the current rates, and you’ve proposed this plan that would radically change the system?

RICK PERRY: Well I consider what Mitt’s doing kind of nibbling around the edges. I consider what we’re doing bold. Appropriate. And when you couple it with the rest of things in our plan, whether it’s the budget— in the balanced budget amendment we’ve talk about, when it’s cutting the spending— setting it at 18 percent— of our gross domestic product— spending caps— you got to get the spending under control. I mean, it doesn’t make any difference what the tax system is if they keep spending money like they’ve been spending. You got to have a courageous president to stand up and says, listen, if— if you send a bill to me that spends more money than what we’ve coming in, I’ll veto it. I mean, I’m going to try to work with you the best I can, but I’m going to veto it.

JOHN HARWOOD: You say we need a courageous president. Do you think that— he really is a moderate, and that’s he’s nibbling around the edges? Or do you think that he lacks the guts to propose a plan this strong?

RICK PERRY: You know, I don’t know. I happen to think that when he had the opportunity to move private sector— experience into the public sector as the governor of Massachusetts, they were 47th in job creation in America at that particular point in time. So I have led the nation in job creation. I know how to get things done from a government standpoint. I have been an executive— in governing that has been successful. And that’s what I think Americans are looking for. Someone who has the courage to stand up and say we’re not going to spend that money. I cut spending in