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Posted on 10/25/2011 6:42:07 PM PDT by Outlaw Woman
Right now, it would be $577.50.
You can present the apples and oranges argument and convince me that my income tax would go down to offset the increase in sales tax. What about my standard deduction? My itemized deductions? My mortgage interest deduction? Those things go away, right?
Its a tough sell. And it smells like the Canadian or Euro system to me. Penalizing me for making purchases at every stop I make. Gasoline, groceries, lawnmowers, shotguns, ammo, vehicles.....my sales tax is DOUBLED.
No thanks!
I stopped you right there because I knew what you were going to do. You were going to try to snow me by thinking I was stupid enough to not think for myself. You see, I’ve owned my own businesses since High School. Only for about 5 years total did I actually work for someone else.
You see, what you were about to do to me was predicated on your hope that I was stupid enough to not realize that in the $7000 dollars you paid for that mower there was already built in the cost of taxes paid by businesses who produced the raw materials for the parts, the parts for that mower and who actually put that mower together before you got it. Those taxes amounted to about 20% of that $7000 or $1400. That cost goes away for all of those producers. Will they lower the cost by that totally? Who knows, but being in business for myself all those years I can tell you that I would have lowered the cost to get the business. Get my drift?
Now, lets take your original story.
Once again you were going to try to impress me and assume I wouldn’t catch that you included your local tax which wouldn’t change so let’s get back to honest and deal with the change only. K?
Let’s assume that just half of that tax that is now imbedded is taken out. The price on the mower is now $6250. That with the 9% is $6812.50. Your original cost was $7577.50. Under the new plan you cost would be $7328.12 a savings of $249.38. And that’s only assuming the price is reduced by half of the current imbedded taxes.
If you want to continue in that naiveté thinking you aren’t paying imbedded taxes now go right ahead. But for me, No Thanks.
Guess I missed the part about the manufacturers of all goods cutting their prices out of the goodness of their hearts. You come off like a crotchety and angry old turd. And paranoid. All I did was ask you a few honest questions and gave some of my own actual experiences. Your answers imply that I'm scheming and trying to trip you up. Mister I just asked you a few simple questions and nothing else. Get over it. Pour yourself a gin and tonic. Maybe place a wet rag across your forehead. Dayum.
“Let’s just hope they both go down in flames. Lol”
“Make that chimps.”
Some of us think for ourselves so you had better have your ducks in a row and assume the people you want to convince to vote for your guy are adults. Insulting them ain’t gonna do it.
No.
That was one of the ways he suggested he could try to get this going.
It certainly was not how he planned to “pass” the plan!
Cain has talked over and over again about how he will need people to send Reps. and Senators to Washington to support him, and he will need the voters to put pressure on Congress, to get his plan passed.
I understand your example very well and am well aware of long-term depreciation and so on.
But it doesn’t change the reality I brought up and that you did not address: that Congress can and does change the tax code all the time.
There is no saying that your depreciation expense for your capital expenditure is “safe” for the short-term or the long-term, much less forever.
Yes, as I said previously, Congress does often grandfather in previous provisions or phase-in changes. And that can, and likely will happen with ANY tax reform plan that is passed.
But to say Perry’s plan is better because it doesn’t “pull the rug out from under business” is just not well-founded.
First of all, there’s nothing stopping the tax code from being changed into the future under the Perry plan. Congress could decide that darn flat tax just isn’t producing enough revenue, so it decides to limit or restructure capital depreciation.
Think that can’t happen? Of course it can.
Second of all, the tax code can and is changed now, sometimes dramatically (otherwise known as “pulling the rug out from under businesses”). That is a risk and uncertainty that all businesses deal with presently, and which would be no different under the Perry plan.
What would change that is if, after an appropriate phase-in period (a time of overlap between the comprehensively new system and the old Fedzilla tax code), the Fedzilla code completely goes away and is replaced with a system that has no, or only a handful, of deductions.
Sounds plausible at first . . . until the "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?" reaction kicks in!
The Fedzilla code will NEVER die unless it is killed.
Perry's plan doesn't kill it. At best, it depends on it becoming so unpopular that it dies on the vine.
NOT.
The Fedzilla code, especially since it can still be added to, amended and so on under the Perry plan, and INDEFINITELY so (i.e., it is NOT sunsetted), will continue to the focus and locus of crony capitalism and even deeper entrenchment and burrowing in of special interests.
How could it not be so?
If this were not the inevitable course of events here, we wouldn't be at this juncture in the first place.
Good grief, some people complain about having a NRST and an income tax -- how about a mini-me flat tax code AND a Fedzilla code that continue to morph into more and more of monster, continuing to pick winners and losers, continuing to reward the takes and punish the producers . . . and so on?
FACEPALM.
Those were both jokes and you know it.
Of course they were.
hellbender is probably one of the 48%.
48% of what? Those full of Bullshit?
Think the media knows just how badly Perry would be chewed up in Presidential debates; and are salivating for a 'knock out' in his first one with Obama. (No matter what Perry supports; he cannot articulate his positions well enough.) He is in fact, pathetic. (Find myself wondering if 'early Alzheimers' is a factor; or he is just not 'sharp'/fast on his feet. . .)
We have got to have better than this in the 'last' analysis; IMHO!
Major Tax Law Changes In 2010 Require Immediate Action,Long-Term Strategies
[snip]
Limitation on itemized deductions/personal exemption phase-out. Full repealof the limitation on itemized deductions and the personal exemption phase-out was scheduled to expire after 2010. The 2010 Tax Relief Act extends full repeal of the limitation on itemized deductions and the personal exemption phase-out for two years, through December 31, 2012.
Qualified capital gains and dividends will continue to be taxed at a maximum rate of 15 percent (zero percent for taxpayers in the 10 and 15 percent brackets). After 2012, however, the EGTRRA-sunset provisions under the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 (JGTRRA) will kick the maximum capital gains rate up to 20 percent and align the dividends rate with the higher ordinary income tax brackets unless Congress acts in the meantime.
Refundable credits in lieu of bonus depreciation. Under the 2009 Recovery Act, a corporation otherwise eligible for first year bonus depreciation may elect to claim minimum tax credits in lieu of claiming depreciation for qualified property placed in service after March 31, 2008 and before December 31, 2008. The 2010 Tax Relief Act includes an election to accelerate AMT credits in lieu of bonus depreciation provided for “round 2 extension property.”
The Fedzilla tax code is NEVER static and claiming it needs to remain in place for "planning" purposes is preposterous, considering the frequency with which Congress tinkers with the code and even makes major changes in depreciation schedules.
If you talking about the empowerment zones, that was in 9-9-9 from the beginning, also he has room for poverty break he has not detailed.
Yep, and those that pay NO taxes.
Please expound on your comment.
Wow. He might jump from 6 to 7 % in the polls this week. This guy ooozes with sleaze. You should find a different candidate.
Thanks Outlaw Woman.
Nevermind...forgive me as I’m old and this thread is more than an hour old. LOL! I got it now. sheesh...it’s hell getting old. :)
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