Skip to comments.(LIVE THREAD!) Republican Presidential Debate #5 - Sep. 12, 2011 8pm/5pm: Tampa, FL (CNN)
Posted on 09/12/2011 7:14:30 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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OK, I dug through the e-mails and found NOTHING about Gardasil, or Merck.
But eventually, I found an article that actually referenced the e-mail Palin was talking about.
That e-mail had NOTHING TO DO WITH MERCK. And in fact, Palin's remarks NEVER said she was approached by Merck. So Palin didn't lie, it's just some people misrepresented what she said.
The e-mail was from 2008, and was a response to the Board of Education in Alaska adding Chicken Pox vaccine to the mandatory list. Palin's e-mail says that she can't do anything about it, but that her staff should tell supporters that she opposed mandating shots for our kids.
Nothing at all about "standing up to Merck". Just a comment that she can't stop mandatory vaccines, but she didn't support it, in the context of Chicken Pox.
I don't think she meant she opposed all mandatory vaccines, because she was governor for 2.5+ years, and never did anything to stop the Alaska mandatory vaccine program. If she really opposed it, she would have done something or at least tried to do something.
So in my opinion, she was just saying that she was predisposed to not mandate new vaccines. That is a great position, one I agree with, especially for Gardasil in 2007.
But it is a misrepresentation of what she said to claim she was "approached by Merck" and said "hell no". She didn't say that, her e-mail has nothing to do with that, and it turns out Merck stopped approaching states to mandate Gardasil in February of 2007, right after she became Governor.
Merck switched to a public education campaign, to put Gardasil on vaccine lists so insurance companies would cover it, and a push for federal and state programs to use tax dollars to pay for poor people. That campaign worked well enough that Alaska, under Sarah Palin, advertised Gardasil shots for their innocent children paid for by taxpayer dollars.
Not a mandate. But what Merck was pushing after they stopped pushing the mandate program.
A man with no respect for the opinions of his fellow adult citizens has little patience too, so it seems. Perry acted with absolutely ruinous and unneeded alacrity to cram a new vaccine down the throats and veins of the most innocent despite the regards of their adult parents to whom that proper authority is due.
This was NO rapidly spreading Black Plaque. It EASILY could have been delayed a few months for the proper and weighty consideration of the legislature of Texas. Perry's actions are EASILY seen as raw dictatorial power wielding.
Perry could have waited, but as a crony of big pharma through his most trusted major domo, he too was swept into the forced tidal wave of panicked medicine as a new valuable drug came to market. And he made some money from it too, directly and indirectly.
It was indeed crony capitalism. Crony medicine of the worst sort. I also went through it at the time, having friends who are pediatricians swept up into the fearsome marketing buzz and fear and panic based marketing efforts.
Mass has its fair share of illegals too...almost as many as Texas. Romney hired some to work on his yard (unknowingly) which was an issue during the last election. Not to mention Obama’s aunt lives in subsidized housing in Mass on the state dole. Perry stated it costs the taxpayers of Texas 400 million a year to guard 1200 miles of border..where are the feds?
OK, I’ll give you that. Your use of “bold” on the first part misled me as to what you thought was difficult.
But I consider myself hyper-sensitive when I sign my name to things (I actually may my state’s “use tax”, one of only about 300 people who do — so you can see I take my oath seriously).
I would have no trouble claiming a conscientious objection to Gardasil, if I had such an objection. That’s what it means, I oppose it because I don’t THINK it is right to give it to my kids.
It wouldn’t be a religious objection, but that wasn’t the only reason I could claim. In fact, the form so far as I can tell doesn’t force you to explain your objection, you simply site the 2nd clause as the reason for your objection.
I probably would have instead gone to my doctor, to get sound medical advice, and then used the doctor for my objection (because I don’t object to the idea of vaccinating against STDs, I simply would object to the medical rewards vs the risk/cost of doing so, and that would be a medical opinion which I would reach in consultation with a doctor).
Oddly, when our state had mandatory Gardasil vaccine, it was for 6th graders, and since my kids were older, I never had to do anything about it. There was no attempt to “catch up” on the vaccinations. I still opposed it, and wrote opinion columns opposing it and calling for the repeal of the law in Virginia.
When Romney was governor of Mass..under Romney care illegals were allowed to recieve care in the emergency rooms which is where they go for ANYTHING. Romney hired (unknowingly) illegals to work on his yard. Which was a big issue during the last campaign. Romney was pro choice? pro life? changed his stance. Soc Sec is broke and our young workers are forced to pay into it with no real guarantees...sounds like a scheme to me
Here were her words on the subject:
Speaking about her reaction at the time, Palin indicated she had been startled by Perrys decision to push for the vaccine mandate.Note that this both implies she thought he was unduly influenced, AND that she was it as out of the norm for him. Obviously, she did NOT think the Garasil incident was serious enough to make a point out of publicly at any time before now, nor did it bother her enough to change her opinion of Perry as a "true conservative".
Sarah Palin: And there had to have been something to that whole issue because it just didnt sound like Governor Perry, she recalled. Governor Perry was, you know, the proverbial anti-government type of maverick there in Texas, and yet on this issue, he decided that he was going to know better than a parent was going to know in terms of what the health care or health benefit would be for their teenage daughters. So I knew there was something to it.
This should put to rest the argument by a few people (don't know if you were one or not) that she didn't really know about Perry's Gardasil record when she endorsed him for Governor.
Thanks for correcting the record. I made a mistake by leaving the bold in. As I was composing my reply that used it my initial emphasis changed. I wanted to play up the medical excuse aspect since I had some familiarity with the intense marketing to the medical profession that went on with Gardasil. As I wrote I realized that was anecdotal, and I tried to make a more generally based, less anecdotal, point.
There were also deaths associated with those gardasil shots. Those are lives lost that would otherwise still be alive.
Just be a conservative and keep your hands off my child
Like Obama, Bachmann's never done it. Romney's been on all sides. Cain's not been in gov't. so much of it's theory for him.
Santorum showed his "debate society" cards pressing "opt in," ignoring the vaccine would no longer be covered by health insurance or medicaid meaning those needing it most, and can't afford, it won't get it because of cost.
Perry's a principled pragmatist.
She's not running, but I think Palin could fall into that camp as well. (Or I did until she signed on with Bachmann in throwing Perry under the bus.)
Anyone else notice the facial expressions, demeanor, and behavior of Perry?
It scary similar to Bush and they were just discussing this on KFI Los Angeles and several others mentioned this last night, right here.
“It scary similar to Bush “
So what the hell is that supposed to mean?
Why are we tearing down the front runner in probably the most important election in our lifetime?
By making these kinds of comments, we give the Rats a free gift.
‘Not sure if it was because my dad was a lifer in the Air Force _____’
It could make a difference that you were ‘surrounded’ by military, therefore had a different experience.
However, in public all these years, singing the National Anthem, I cannot remember ever seeing anyone cover their heart. If some did, they did, but have not heard this was in the “Rules Of The Flag.” Guess I better look it up!
If it’s there, I will lead the way in promoting this.
Which reminds me of something else . . .
We are not to applaud the National Anthem, but most do . . . not me!
I realize they’re applauding the soloist, but if we were all informed, the soloist should not expect it, and wouldn’t feel weird if there were no applause.
Or change the Rules!
Well, fortunately, no one dies from ignorance of Flag/Anthem protocol. Most feel like doing whatever they want, and to heck with everyone else!
Our closeness to the military comes in the fact many in this family have worked and retired with Grumman, former headquarters, L.I., N.Y., maker of the great F-14 Tom Cat (Navy pilots loved it), and all the ‘cat’ warbirds.
(Conservative talk radio host Michael Medved, lives up your way, leaving L.A. years ago. Ever run into him)?!
Do you live in Texas?
No. You can see that I live in VA. I do have a second home in AZ. I also am very involved with the Tea Party movement and a grassroots immigration group that lobbies on the Hill and in Richmond. I do have contacts with folks in Texas about immigration issues.
The one that ticks me off the most is Kathleen Wiley. Her husband had JUST died.
Had I been she, I would have become the most lethal woman on the face of the earth at that moment.
Especially the one about gathering moths and using the honey that they make in their underground labs as fuel for the next Space Shuttle flight!
Ron Paul is just plain aweful! He’s not true libertarian. He’s an anti-American confederalist.
I got to ask everyone:
Did anyone else feel that this debate was bizarrely a race to the center/left?
I felt like all the questions were liberals trying to force the candidates into bad sound bites to play on the MSM.
Each candidate, instead of trying to prove their conservative, T-Party creds, was trying to prove their Democrat/Socialist cred.
I felt really bizarre. It scares me...
He needs a little blue helmet with lightening bolts on the sides.
Then it would be perfect.
I do know that I don’t have the patience required to make mead.
With the costume improvements you suggest he could be the symbol of the Ron Paul camp and assorted hangers-on.
Clinton and Willey did not know that her husband was dead when he accosted her. At least Kathleen wasn’t raped, unlike the 3 women I mentioned. Bob
Hi STAR and you all.
I had a fabulous time! Very difficult to describe. Nothing like seeing the candidates in person. Oh yeah, we watched the debate on the huge screen with a lot of TEA PRTY folks and that was a lot of fun, what with the hoots and hollers from supporters, but one group sorta got more silent when their candidate’s 911 crap was brought to light.
Got pictures and got to speak briefly with all the candidates who attended our TEA PARTY EXPRESS after the debate party: Romney, Perry, Bachmann, Newt and Herman Cain.
I love all of our awesome FLORIDA FReepers and we had a wonderful showing! We shoved our tables together and then went out for *wings* after the after party! I’m sure we’ll have pictures galore later.
More from me tomorrow..
I've lived in Arizona over 67 years. Up to about 12 to 15 years ago we never minded illegals because they were not a burden nor a problem. They were clean, kind, proud people who wouldn't take a hand out, they worked and worked hard. There were people who came here every years to do seasonal work and then went home, and the few who stayed here learned english and were so strict with their kids that our parents were always telling us to be like them. That changed a little over a decade ago (longer, much longer in California).
I'm a strong beliver in states right, I'm also a strong believer in live and let live. Texas has a right, granted by the Constitution, to determine how they choose to speand their tax dollars. The feds won't deport people, the courts give them rights, Texas just had a choice of let them pay in state tuition or let them go on the dole. They chose the former. Go look at he vote.
Well, I’m glad you’re comfortable accepting the FDA’s word.
Sure was great to meet you Onyx! Have a great trip home today! And hope Syncro has a good trip home too!
Pinging some friends and know the ones with pictures will ping us when they post them!
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